Hello everyone!
I’ve mentioned before that we plan to install a wooden privacy fence along the side of our property bordering the neighbor. The plan was for rounded fence panels, 180cm (71 inches) tall at the highest point and the same width.
The local DIY store gave me a quote for the materials, including delivery. Normally, this store is not particularly expensive.
The total for materials for 19.5m (64 feet) of fencing came to over 1000€. The panels themselves were about 500€, with the rest being the “miscellaneous parts.” One costly item is the wood stain planned (three times 4L (1 gallon) of Bondex long-lasting protective stain) for nearly 200€. The advisor also said we need to use H-posts and set them in concrete. He quoted a 40kg (88 lbs) bag of screed concrete for each post.
I know that here in northern Germany it’s probably better to set the posts in concrete, but do I really need 400kg (880 lbs) of concrete for a 19.5m (64 feet) wooden fence? It seems crazy to me.
With L-brackets, screws, posts, etc., the entire project came to just over 1000€, and then we still have to assemble it ourselves — and we’re not sure if we can manage that. I had originally thought of using the quick-setting concrete that only needs watering, but I expected 2–3 bags would be enough.
Do you think the quote for materials is realistic? I’m a bit shocked.
Now we’re considering alternatives. For example, I could order a mixed package of “natural hedge bouquet” with 160 plants online for about 280€, which would green up the whole garden and cost only about a quarter of what the fence would. However, the noise insulation to the neighbor’s property would probably be weaker than with a wooden fence (anyone with experience here?), and we would have to wait a few years until the plants grow tall enough to screen the view of the metal shed. But honestly, I’d almost prefer to invest a four-figure amount in greenery rather than in a fence.
What would you recommend?
I’ve mentioned before that we plan to install a wooden privacy fence along the side of our property bordering the neighbor. The plan was for rounded fence panels, 180cm (71 inches) tall at the highest point and the same width.
The local DIY store gave me a quote for the materials, including delivery. Normally, this store is not particularly expensive.
The total for materials for 19.5m (64 feet) of fencing came to over 1000€. The panels themselves were about 500€, with the rest being the “miscellaneous parts.” One costly item is the wood stain planned (three times 4L (1 gallon) of Bondex long-lasting protective stain) for nearly 200€. The advisor also said we need to use H-posts and set them in concrete. He quoted a 40kg (88 lbs) bag of screed concrete for each post.
I know that here in northern Germany it’s probably better to set the posts in concrete, but do I really need 400kg (880 lbs) of concrete for a 19.5m (64 feet) wooden fence? It seems crazy to me.
With L-brackets, screws, posts, etc., the entire project came to just over 1000€, and then we still have to assemble it ourselves — and we’re not sure if we can manage that. I had originally thought of using the quick-setting concrete that only needs watering, but I expected 2–3 bags would be enough.
Do you think the quote for materials is realistic? I’m a bit shocked.
Now we’re considering alternatives. For example, I could order a mixed package of “natural hedge bouquet” with 160 plants online for about 280€, which would green up the whole garden and cost only about a quarter of what the fence would. However, the noise insulation to the neighbor’s property would probably be weaker than with a wooden fence (anyone with experience here?), and we would have to wait a few years until the plants grow tall enough to screen the view of the metal shed. But honestly, I’d almost prefer to invest a four-figure amount in greenery rather than in a fence.
What would you recommend?
T
Traumfaenger13 Aug 2021 20:52kati1337 schrieb:
We are now considering alternatives. I can also order a mixed "natural hedge bouquet" pack with 160 plants online for €280 (about $300), which would allow me to green my entire garden and would cost only a quarter of what the fence would. However, I assume the sound insulation to the neighboring property might be somewhat weaker than with a wooden fence (? - does anyone have experience with this?), We have a few meters of pre-grown hedge and have had a good experience with it. In terms of sound insulation, I don’t see any difference, even though we also have a brick wall about 1.60m (5 feet) high and over 20 meters (65 feet) long. Sounds are not really blocked by such small obstacles in open nature. The sound barriers along highways are much taller, but I’m not an expert. I personally don’t notice any difference...
Traumfaenger schrieb:
Regarding sound insulation, I don’t see any difference, even though we have a brick wall over 20 meters (65.6 feet) long and about 1.60 m (5.25 feet) high. Sound is not stopped by such small obstacles in open nature. The idea of a sound barrier acting like a bouncer (“hey, you’re not coming through!”) is rather naive. A soundproof wall that simply stands in the way would be easily overcome by sound pressure. Key to the success of the overall concept are diffusers—meaning the sound wave is broken down into many tiny air currents, reflected in a crumpled way, cancelling itself out, and the remainder slowed down until it shifts into more pleasant frequency ranges. Flexible obstacles work best and are effective across a broad range of sound and other wind pressures.
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Schimi179115 Aug 2021 00:38This discussion is about bass. It has already been mentioned that bass can only be dampened by mass.
A useful measure that should not be overlooked is communication with the neighbor.
Yes, sometimes it doesn’t help at all or even makes things worse, but in my opinion, that is where the most important potential lies.
Patience, humor, creativity… charm and flexibility of mind… these are all qualities that can be helpful. Practicing and experimenting with them can also be enjoyable 🙂
Yes, sometimes it doesn’t help at all or even makes things worse, but in my opinion, that is where the most important potential lies.
Patience, humor, creativity… charm and flexibility of mind… these are all qualities that can be helpful. Practicing and experimenting with them can also be enjoyable 🙂
S
Smialbuddler15 Aug 2021 10:04We also have neighbors who occasionally need party music for gardening, probably at a similar volume level. (Yes, it annoys me a lot, too.)
We have a good test setup to explore this issue.
- A 2-meter (6.5 feet) chain-link fence as a reference.
- Several meters of very old thuja hedge, about 1 meter (3 feet) thick, dense and 2 meters (6.5 feet) high. Slight sound dampening. Unfortunately, only slight.
- A shed with a gable facing the property line (it used to be a double shed, also on our side). Built solidly, the gable is about 4 meters (13 feet) high, nearly 10 meters (33 feet) long, and 5 meters (16 feet) wide. So basically a 4-meter (13 feet) high, very massive sound barrier wall.
Behind the shed, the music is almost gone—in the sense that I have to actively listen to check if it’s still playing. The bass is also barely noticeable.
- The living room window is 8 meters (26 feet) from the side of the shed where the music is played, roughly at head height, only about 1 meter (3 feet) below the shed’s height. The music is noticeably louder there again, but with much less bass and significantly quieter than behind the hedge.
What this shows: massive stone structures are extremely valuable, the thicker the better (mass!).
Height also plays an important role.
However, I find it hard to imagine that a normal thin wall could provide the same level of soundproofing as our shed, even with top engineering using specially dense and shaped bricks :-/
We have a good test setup to explore this issue.
- A 2-meter (6.5 feet) chain-link fence as a reference.
- Several meters of very old thuja hedge, about 1 meter (3 feet) thick, dense and 2 meters (6.5 feet) high. Slight sound dampening. Unfortunately, only slight.
- A shed with a gable facing the property line (it used to be a double shed, also on our side). Built solidly, the gable is about 4 meters (13 feet) high, nearly 10 meters (33 feet) long, and 5 meters (16 feet) wide. So basically a 4-meter (13 feet) high, very massive sound barrier wall.
Behind the shed, the music is almost gone—in the sense that I have to actively listen to check if it’s still playing. The bass is also barely noticeable.
- The living room window is 8 meters (26 feet) from the side of the shed where the music is played, roughly at head height, only about 1 meter (3 feet) below the shed’s height. The music is noticeably louder there again, but with much less bass and significantly quieter than behind the hedge.
What this shows: massive stone structures are extremely valuable, the thicker the better (mass!).
Height also plays an important role.
However, I find it hard to imagine that a normal thin wall could provide the same level of soundproofing as our shed, even with top engineering using specially dense and shaped bricks :-/
11ant schrieb:
The idea of a soundproof wall acting like a bouncer ("hey, you’re not getting in here!") is rather naive. A sound barrier that simply stands in the way would just be “climbed over” by the sound pressure. Diffusers play a crucial role in the overall success of the concept. The goal is to break the sound wave into many tiny air currents, scatter it in a crumpled way, have it cancel itself out, and slow down the remainder until it shifts into more pleasant frequency ranges. Flexible obstacles work best for this and are effective across a broad range of sound and other wind pressures.What exactly are flexible obstacles?
And do you have any ideas about materials that could be used as diffusers outdoors? Something I could attach to our fence posts that wouldn’t be too expensive?
I once read that coconut matting could be good for absorbing sound. However, I haven’t found any good offers for purchasing it in larger quantities or in long, wide rolls.
There’s also that “acoustic foam” with the triangular shapes often used in music studios, but I doubt it’s suitable for outdoor use?
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