ᐅ Surviving the Winter with a Finished Shell but No Heating?
Created on: 19 Sep 2022 08:35
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FleckenzwergF
Fleckenzwerg19 Sep 2022 08:35Good morning,
we are basically in the home stretch with our building project with the general contractor actually. The shell of the house is closed, but it is not fully sealed yet due to a construction door at the side entrance; everything on the outside is finished. The electrical rough-in is done, plaster is on the interior walls, and the screed will be installed at the end of the week – drying will be assisted by a hot-air blower. Just before that, the utility connections will be set up. The big question mark is the heat pump. According to our information, it was only ordered late in the summer. The heating installer isn’t giving a clear statement. He only says it’s supposed to be installed in November (after the tiling), so there’s no need to worry about delivery times. The general contractor is very relaxed about this as well.
Now the question:
What should we prepare for if, surprise surprise, the heat pump does not arrive on time and its delivery date is delayed significantly, possibly even until next spring? What does this mean for the building structure? Does the construction need to be kept at a certain minimum temperature over the winter? Do we need to be concerned about moisture? What about painting, wallpapering, or installing the kitchen – all planned for November? This could have quite a chain reaction, for which we should have a plan B. For example, the kitchen fitter has already mentioned that they can’t store the furniture and appliances indefinitely.
We want to address all these questions soon in a meeting with the general contractor. What is the forum’s opinion on this, and are there any other questions we should ask?
we are basically in the home stretch with our building project with the general contractor actually. The shell of the house is closed, but it is not fully sealed yet due to a construction door at the side entrance; everything on the outside is finished. The electrical rough-in is done, plaster is on the interior walls, and the screed will be installed at the end of the week – drying will be assisted by a hot-air blower. Just before that, the utility connections will be set up. The big question mark is the heat pump. According to our information, it was only ordered late in the summer. The heating installer isn’t giving a clear statement. He only says it’s supposed to be installed in November (after the tiling), so there’s no need to worry about delivery times. The general contractor is very relaxed about this as well.
Now the question:
What should we prepare for if, surprise surprise, the heat pump does not arrive on time and its delivery date is delayed significantly, possibly even until next spring? What does this mean for the building structure? Does the construction need to be kept at a certain minimum temperature over the winter? Do we need to be concerned about moisture? What about painting, wallpapering, or installing the kitchen – all planned for November? This could have quite a chain reaction, for which we should have a plan B. For example, the kitchen fitter has already mentioned that they can’t store the furniture and appliances indefinitely.
We want to address all these questions soon in a meeting with the general contractor. What is the forum’s opinion on this, and are there any other questions we should ask?
It was pretty similar for me.
First of all, you can forget about the heat pump being installed in November.
Yes, it’s best to continue using a temporary heating solution, like a construction heater or a heat pump that only heats intermittently.
Around 16°-17°C (61°-63°F) should basically be enough.
No problem at all if you can maintain 16°-17°C (61°-63°F).
Do you have a completion deadline with an agreed penalty clause? If so, everything should be handled through that.
Are painting and wallpapering being done by yourselves?
I assume the kitchen installation is as well. Then ask about the circumstances (or check the contract) if you plan to start those self-performed tasks. Does that automatically mean acceptance? If so, negotiate for them to waive this, and in return, you waive claims for damages due to the delay (warning: this is difficult and time-consuming to enforce), but phrase it politely and defensively.
Good luck!
First of all, you can forget about the heat pump being installed in November.
Fleckenzwerg schrieb:
What should we expect if the heat pump—oh surprise!—doesn’t arrive and, as with many others, the delivery date gets pushed far back, possibly even into next spring? What does this mean for the building structure? Does the construction need to be kept at a certain minimum temperature over the winter?
Yes, it’s best to continue using a temporary heating solution, like a construction heater or a heat pump that only heats intermittently.
Around 16°-17°C (61°-63°F) should basically be enough.
Fleckenzwerg schrieb:
Do we need to watch out for moisture? What about painting, wallpapering, installing the kitchen—all planned for November. That potentially carries quite a chain reaction, for which you should have a plan B. The kitchen installer already mentioned that they cannot store the furniture and appliances indefinitely.
No problem at all if you can maintain 16°-17°C (61°-63°F).
Fleckenzwerg schrieb:
We want to discuss all these questions with the general contractor on short notice. What is the forum’s opinion, and are there any other questions we should ask?
Do you have a completion deadline with an agreed penalty clause? If so, everything should be handled through that.
Are painting and wallpapering being done by yourselves?
I assume the kitchen installation is as well. Then ask about the circumstances (or check the contract) if you plan to start those self-performed tasks. Does that automatically mean acceptance? If so, negotiate for them to waive this, and in return, you waive claims for damages due to the delay (warning: this is difficult and time-consuming to enforce), but phrase it politely and defensively.
Good luck!
F
Fleckenzwerg19 Sep 2022 10:2516°C (61°F) with the Hotboy through the winter, that’s going to be expensive.
Could this be avoided if everything is postponed until spring, when it’s either warmer or the heat pump is finally installed?
Good point regarding the electricity and possibly tacit acceptance. We will address this and, if necessary, have it confirmed in writing.
Compensation for delay—yes, this is a complicated issue.
The contract includes an agreement for a performance bond. This has not yet been delivered to us. It should actually have been provided with the first payment installment. However, we missed that—our fault. If we ask for it now, the general contractor likely suspects something. So, we’ll hold off for the time being.
No other contractual penalties or retention of securities were agreed upon. So, compensation for damages is the only option. The foundation slab was completed in November of last year, with a contractually agreed construction period of 8 months. With a generous interpretation, one could say the building should have been finished by the end of July at the latest. Of course, excuses like COVID, war, full moon, etc. apply... A schedule projecting completion by mid-November was presented to us about a month ago. We would be willing to accept the delay so far as a good will gesture and to set the new completion date as binding. However, if the heat pump installation takes several more months, we would be inclined to claim all resulting delays and consequential costs from the general contractor. For a few hundred euros, it’s not worth the effort, but if the Hotboy runs for four months, along with basic electricity supply at €0.50/kWh (about $0.50/kWh) and possibly much higher in a few weeks, I’m no longer joking. Rent and potentially additional storage costs for the kitchen are not cheap either. That adds up to a few thousand euros. It gets really tricky with the subsidies: the BAFA approval expires in January and cannot be extended. The child benefit subsidy will also end soon, as the funds are almost depleted. Our financing is solid and doesn’t depend on these subsidies, but this still really hurts...
Could this be avoided if everything is postponed until spring, when it’s either warmer or the heat pump is finally installed?
Good point regarding the electricity and possibly tacit acceptance. We will address this and, if necessary, have it confirmed in writing.
Compensation for delay—yes, this is a complicated issue.
The contract includes an agreement for a performance bond. This has not yet been delivered to us. It should actually have been provided with the first payment installment. However, we missed that—our fault. If we ask for it now, the general contractor likely suspects something. So, we’ll hold off for the time being.
No other contractual penalties or retention of securities were agreed upon. So, compensation for damages is the only option. The foundation slab was completed in November of last year, with a contractually agreed construction period of 8 months. With a generous interpretation, one could say the building should have been finished by the end of July at the latest. Of course, excuses like COVID, war, full moon, etc. apply... A schedule projecting completion by mid-November was presented to us about a month ago. We would be willing to accept the delay so far as a good will gesture and to set the new completion date as binding. However, if the heat pump installation takes several more months, we would be inclined to claim all resulting delays and consequential costs from the general contractor. For a few hundred euros, it’s not worth the effort, but if the Hotboy runs for four months, along with basic electricity supply at €0.50/kWh (about $0.50/kWh) and possibly much higher in a few weeks, I’m no longer joking. Rent and potentially additional storage costs for the kitchen are not cheap either. That adds up to a few thousand euros. It gets really tricky with the subsidies: the BAFA approval expires in January and cannot be extended. The child benefit subsidy will also end soon, as the funds are almost depleted. Our financing is solid and doesn’t depend on these subsidies, but this still really hurts...
F
Fleckenzwerg19 Sep 2022 15:43We just had the conversation with the general contractor.
He says these are crazy times, and you can't trust the heat pump manufacturers at all when it comes to delivery times, etc. That said, not every heat pump is necessarily delivered much later. One of his heating technicians heard from a heat pump manufacturer that a specific heat pump was not available for a certain customer and no reliable information could be given. The following week, that very heat pump suddenly arrived on site. I think the manufacturers are under so much pressure that whatever they manage to put together quickly is shipped out immediately without detours. Presumably, some processes are not fully followed, which I find worrying in terms of quality assurance, because I would rather have a delayed than a faulty heat pump. But I digress...
In short, no one can say for sure; we just have to see if it arrives in November. If not, we have two options.
1) Heat electrically, but not just to 16°C (61°F), rather to 20°C (68°F) since we will move in regardless, even without a heat pump. Electric heating is expensive, yes, but the double burden of rent is no joke either. Maybe the cost difference won’t be that big in the end.
2) Don’t heat at all. The general contractor says that with a few precautions for the house, nothing will happen. The water pipes must be drained. A little moisture is not a problem as long as there is regular ventilation. Wallpapering and kitchen installation should also be possible. The move-in will depend entirely on the heat pump then.
Interestingly, the price for our construction site electricity is currently about 38 cents/kWh; the basic supply price from the local utility is 47 cents/kWh, both gross. If this stays the same, I will use the construction site electricity as long as possible.
He says these are crazy times, and you can't trust the heat pump manufacturers at all when it comes to delivery times, etc. That said, not every heat pump is necessarily delivered much later. One of his heating technicians heard from a heat pump manufacturer that a specific heat pump was not available for a certain customer and no reliable information could be given. The following week, that very heat pump suddenly arrived on site. I think the manufacturers are under so much pressure that whatever they manage to put together quickly is shipped out immediately without detours. Presumably, some processes are not fully followed, which I find worrying in terms of quality assurance, because I would rather have a delayed than a faulty heat pump. But I digress...
In short, no one can say for sure; we just have to see if it arrives in November. If not, we have two options.
1) Heat electrically, but not just to 16°C (61°F), rather to 20°C (68°F) since we will move in regardless, even without a heat pump. Electric heating is expensive, yes, but the double burden of rent is no joke either. Maybe the cost difference won’t be that big in the end.
2) Don’t heat at all. The general contractor says that with a few precautions for the house, nothing will happen. The water pipes must be drained. A little moisture is not a problem as long as there is regular ventilation. Wallpapering and kitchen installation should also be possible. The move-in will depend entirely on the heat pump then.
Interestingly, the price for our construction site electricity is currently about 38 cents/kWh; the basic supply price from the local utility is 47 cents/kWh, both gross. If this stays the same, I will use the construction site electricity as long as possible.
X
xMisterDx20 Sep 2022 23:39I find penalty clauses quite questionable... the general contractor can claim force majeure, and the chip shortage and war would likely qualify.
Once your utility connections are installed, the construction power supply ends, your regular electricity meter is installed, and you will receive a contract with your local utility company.
What is supposed to happen to the house if you don’t heat it and don’t move in? You just need to ventilate and ensure that the heating system and water pipes don’t freeze.
The shell of the building can also be left over the winter without developing mold. How is the house with plaster and screed different from the shell, except that moisture cannot escape as easily because fairly airtight windows (and insulation) are installed?
Once your utility connections are installed, the construction power supply ends, your regular electricity meter is installed, and you will receive a contract with your local utility company.
What is supposed to happen to the house if you don’t heat it and don’t move in? You just need to ventilate and ensure that the heating system and water pipes don’t freeze.
The shell of the building can also be left over the winter without developing mold. How is the house with plaster and screed different from the shell, except that moisture cannot escape as easily because fairly airtight windows (and insulation) are installed?
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WilderSueden21 Sep 2022 13:40On one hand, the plaster and screed introduce a significant amount of moisture. On the other hand, after the windows are installed, this moisture can no longer escape. This is definitely not comparable to a covered shell construction without windows that is allowed to freeze out over the winter.
If possible, I would move in. A new building doesn’t require that much energy, and maybe the heat pump will be installed after a month, saving rent costs. Living in a state of readiness is also annoying—moving involves much more than just carrying boxes from point A to B. Unless you are moving very close by, childcare and other factors are also involved.
If possible, I would move in. A new building doesn’t require that much energy, and maybe the heat pump will be installed after a month, saving rent costs. Living in a state of readiness is also annoying—moving involves much more than just carrying boxes from point A to B. Unless you are moving very close by, childcare and other factors are also involved.
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