Hello everyone,
Including the early planning phase, we have been building our house for two years now and are approaching the interior finishing stage.
Throughout all trades involved, we have had an experience that I want to share with you and ask if you have encountered the same:
Basically, our contractors, with few exceptions, do not ask any questions. They just carry out the work. Later, if a part of the trade or a work step turns out to be done incorrectly (which has happened to us several times), the response is "we didn’t know." We always think and say, "Why don’t you ask us?"
Every contractor has my mobile number, and I tell each one that I am reachable 24/7 during the construction and that they can just call me if they have any questions or uncertainties.
Whenever I happen to be at the construction site, the contractors suddenly have questions which are then asked directly to me. But if I were not there on site, they would never have asked.
Without asking, they always choose the path of least resistance, meaning the easiest option. It’s not about money. I am willing to pay more for a better method, but I am not even being asked.
Is this your experience as well, or have we just been unlucky with our partner companies?
Including the early planning phase, we have been building our house for two years now and are approaching the interior finishing stage.
Throughout all trades involved, we have had an experience that I want to share with you and ask if you have encountered the same:
Basically, our contractors, with few exceptions, do not ask any questions. They just carry out the work. Later, if a part of the trade or a work step turns out to be done incorrectly (which has happened to us several times), the response is "we didn’t know." We always think and say, "Why don’t you ask us?"
Every contractor has my mobile number, and I tell each one that I am reachable 24/7 during the construction and that they can just call me if they have any questions or uncertainties.
Whenever I happen to be at the construction site, the contractors suddenly have questions which are then asked directly to me. But if I were not there on site, they would never have asked.
Without asking, they always choose the path of least resistance, meaning the easiest option. It’s not about money. I am willing to pay more for a better method, but I am not even being asked.
Is this your experience as well, or have we just been unlucky with our partner companies?
Silent010 schrieb:
I could write a novel about what would have gone wrong during the house construction if we hadn’t intervened. There are already such stories, even as scripts.
Silent010 schrieb:
KG pipes laid directly in gravel, Oh dear, real experts at work.
ruppsn schrieb:
and I had to notice that there were fresh footprints in the screed. It turned out that the drywaller had forgotten to take a measurement, which could have waited at that point. Sometimes I get the impression that some people have read the collected works of Ephraim Kishon (and mistakenly thought they were textbooks).
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ruppsn our general contractor only plans concretely two weeks in advance. Without knowing what agile methods are, they realized that this approach works better for them.
Agile methods also allow ordering materials weeks ahead.
We built a timber house. Only on-site did they consider where to run the electrical cables to the upper floor and drilled holes there. The same applied to light outlets and similar installations.
There was no detailed execution plan for the staircase either. It was discussed on-site and calculated directly on the wall. For us as clients, this made it much easier to visualize. And the staircase turned out really beautiful.
I am not against the waterfall model. I disagree with the statements that there must be an execution plan for everything and that this is the only best approach.
Agile methods also allow ordering materials weeks ahead.
We built a timber house. Only on-site did they consider where to run the electrical cables to the upper floor and drilled holes there. The same applied to light outlets and similar installations.
There was no detailed execution plan for the staircase either. It was discussed on-site and calculated directly on the wall. For us as clients, this made it much easier to visualize. And the staircase turned out really beautiful.
I am not against the waterfall model. I disagree with the statements that there must be an execution plan for everything and that this is the only best approach.
My main point was that the chosen methodology should fit the task at hand, and you shouldn’t blindly apply trendy methods to areas without checking if they are suitable. This is something I encounter very often in my professional experience.
It may well work with your timber house manufacturer, so such an approach is appropriate there. I have no problem with that. However, not everyone builds with your general contractors; many work with prefab home manufacturers or use traditional masonry construction. In those cases, your approach will likely cause problems—for the reasons you mentioned, such as lead times, structural engineering, etc.
Before committing to masonry construction myself, I also spoke with typical prefab house manufacturers (wood). Generally, there was a planning phase that ended with the formal approval of the working drawings. Only then did production begin. Lead times of up to one year were common... so I would assume that your case is more of an exception, and you are fortunate. But I doubt that this can be generalized across the entire construction industry.
It may well work with your timber house manufacturer, so such an approach is appropriate there. I have no problem with that. However, not everyone builds with your general contractors; many work with prefab home manufacturers or use traditional masonry construction. In those cases, your approach will likely cause problems—for the reasons you mentioned, such as lead times, structural engineering, etc.
Before committing to masonry construction myself, I also spoke with typical prefab house manufacturers (wood). Generally, there was a planning phase that ended with the formal approval of the working drawings. Only then did production begin. Lead times of up to one year were common... so I would assume that your case is more of an exception, and you are fortunate. But I doubt that this can be generalized across the entire construction industry.
H
HilfeHilfe27 Jan 2018 20:09Silent010 schrieb:
You are of course right. In this case, it was just a 20x4cm (8x1.5 inches) cut into the floor because we, or rather the heating installer, shortened the path of the underfloor heating pipes from the manifold. Structurally, everything is according to plan 🙂 May I guess you are the company boss and have to guide your incompetent colleagues?
Methodology aside, the installation was set too high. Smaller companies can simply be more flexible, within limits. When windows are ordered from Poland, you can’t just quickly change their dimensions. If the roof truss is ordered from a factory, you can’t decide on Monday to have a 35-degree slope and then change it to 30 degrees by Friday.
However, with good communication with the bricklayer, we were able to change internal door positions and widths, but we had to make sure this was communicated to the joinery workshop so the correct doors could be ordered. Naturally, we finalized the stair details quite late. Since the craftsmanship was done on-site and not outsourced, this wasn’t a problem. Nevertheless, it seems best for everyone involved and for the costs to clarify as much as possible in advance and to make very few changes or final decisions later on.
For example, we finalized the tiles well in advance. Two weeks before tiling started, the tilers came to discuss details with us: how far, how high, which pattern, etc. After that, we gave approval, and the quantities were ordered in Lübeck from Fliesenharry. So at that point, it was set in stone. Karsten
However, with good communication with the bricklayer, we were able to change internal door positions and widths, but we had to make sure this was communicated to the joinery workshop so the correct doors could be ordered. Naturally, we finalized the stair details quite late. Since the craftsmanship was done on-site and not outsourced, this wasn’t a problem. Nevertheless, it seems best for everyone involved and for the costs to clarify as much as possible in advance and to make very few changes or final decisions later on.
For example, we finalized the tiles well in advance. Two weeks before tiling started, the tilers came to discuss details with us: how far, how high, which pattern, etc. After that, we gave approval, and the quantities were ordered in Lübeck from Fliesenharry. So at that point, it was set in stone. Karsten
We built with a general contractor (GC) who has 250 employees. After the initial discussion (which roof tiles, bathtub, tiles, etc.), we received a detailed schedule showing who does what and when. All companies involved in the construction were listed with their appointment dates for when they were supposed to be on site. We, as the homeowners, were also included with entries like “house connections in week x” and “drainage in week x+1.”
The schedule arrived in May and was planned up to the handover in mid-October. The only uncertainty was between the screed installation and the tiling because the screed needed to reach the required moisture level before tiling could begin. Up to the screed, EVERY trade completed their tasks on time. Sometimes one arrived a week early, another came 2-3 days late (the roofer worked on a Saturday), but everyone finished punctually enough so that there were no delays at all. The only delay was that the screed did not dry on time, which caused a two-week delay. What annoyed us was that the heating system was off for a week longer than necessary because the gas and water technician let the heating stop (the screed drying program ran out).
After that, the tilers proceeded on schedule. Each trade started on time afterward. The company’s manager was our site supervisor; no one wanted to upset him. I assume the GC keeps their subcontractors busy, but demands strict adherence to deadlines. Everyone praised the GC and the good payment terms. So apparently, it does work...
Otherwise, I agree with the thread starter that proactive thinking and asking questions are quite rare—even among otherwise good people.
The schedule arrived in May and was planned up to the handover in mid-October. The only uncertainty was between the screed installation and the tiling because the screed needed to reach the required moisture level before tiling could begin. Up to the screed, EVERY trade completed their tasks on time. Sometimes one arrived a week early, another came 2-3 days late (the roofer worked on a Saturday), but everyone finished punctually enough so that there were no delays at all. The only delay was that the screed did not dry on time, which caused a two-week delay. What annoyed us was that the heating system was off for a week longer than necessary because the gas and water technician let the heating stop (the screed drying program ran out).
After that, the tilers proceeded on schedule. Each trade started on time afterward. The company’s manager was our site supervisor; no one wanted to upset him. I assume the GC keeps their subcontractors busy, but demands strict adherence to deadlines. Everyone praised the GC and the good payment terms. So apparently, it does work...
Otherwise, I agree with the thread starter that proactive thinking and asking questions are quite rare—even among otherwise good people.
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