Hello everyone,
we are about to start our second attempt at building our dream house, or rather, we have already begun and are currently waiting for a detailed offer with a construction description.
I now need to gradually deal with several topics, such as:
- windows and doors
- central ventilation system with heat recovery
- heating
- possible DIY contributions
- fireplace
Windows and doors will be the first on the list. Our supplier usually works with windows and exterior doors from Schüco and CePal interior doors from Garant.
What concerns me now is whether these manufacturers are a good choice based on my requirements or if it would make sense to tender this part with other manufacturers as well.
My requirements are as follows:
Interior doors: I was thinking of white hollow-core doors with a robust and easy-to-clean surface.
Front door: A standard front door with a side panel, decent thermal insulation, and burglary resistance (RC2). One feature I find particularly appealing is the Schüco "SCHÜCO 211 853 4 multi-point latch lock 'SafeMatic' with anti-panic function," which I consider very useful. Furthermore, I am unsure whether an intercom system with or without video or an integrated door chain would be advisable, although I don’t know if Schüco offers the latter. Is Schüco a good choice at all, or are there suppliers with a better price-performance ratio? Is such an automatic locking system worthwhile? Can it generally replace the need to manually lock the door, or are there significant weaknesses that make the additional cost unjustified?
Windows: The requirements are a bit more complex, so I’ve listed them in bullet points:
- white
- ground floor: RC 2 N
- upper floor: RC 1 N
- electric external roller shutters
- 200 Nm (148 lb-ft) handle torque (I’ve read several times that 100 Nm (74 lb-ft) is not enough)
- triple glazing
The questions that come to mind regarding the windows are:
- push button or lockable handles? (Lockable looks unattractive, and who really locks their windows in everyday life? Is a locked window with a key actually more secure than one with a push button handle?)
- Schüco or another manufacturer?
- which U-value is most economical? (Will the extra cost pay off over time through energy savings?)
- PVC or aluminum?
- Is it better to invest in higher-quality glass or a better frame? Where is the best balance?
- Does anyone know the window manufacturer Morlok from Rötha near Leipzig? Would you recommend them?
Garage: The garage will have a large insulated Hörmann sectional door with an electric drive, as well as a window, a door to the garden, and a door to the house, since it will be built directly attached to the house. The access to the garage will be through the utility room, so the door does not need to meet high aesthetic standards.
Is it sufficient for the exterior garage door to have RC 2 certification, or should the door to the house also meet this standard? From what I understand, the door to the house must be at least a T30 fire door; at another construction site of the builder, this was realized as a metal door, but I have concerns about the thermal insulation.
Which doors should meet which standards here? Are there alternatives to the Hörmann sectional door?
Regardless of the specific points, I am interested in whether the price-performance ratio of the individual products is right. Of course, I want the best value for my money and to use as little as possible to achieve a practical and lasting satisfactory solution. That means I am open to all manufacturers. It does not have to be a well-known brand if this saves money or offers better performance for the same price. I don’t want to pay unnecessarily much but am willing to invest extra for sensible upgrades where possible. What should one pay attention to with the respective products, and which features are worth the money?
Many questions to start with, but I have so much on my mind. Every decision in house building is one that you live with for many years, if not forever, which is why I honestly worry about making a wrong choice or wasting money where it could be better spent elsewhere.
Thank you in advance for your help, and I hope you won’t be too harsh with me.
Best regards,
Markus
we are about to start our second attempt at building our dream house, or rather, we have already begun and are currently waiting for a detailed offer with a construction description.
I now need to gradually deal with several topics, such as:
- windows and doors
- central ventilation system with heat recovery
- heating
- possible DIY contributions
- fireplace
Windows and doors will be the first on the list. Our supplier usually works with windows and exterior doors from Schüco and CePal interior doors from Garant.
What concerns me now is whether these manufacturers are a good choice based on my requirements or if it would make sense to tender this part with other manufacturers as well.
My requirements are as follows:
Interior doors: I was thinking of white hollow-core doors with a robust and easy-to-clean surface.
Front door: A standard front door with a side panel, decent thermal insulation, and burglary resistance (RC2). One feature I find particularly appealing is the Schüco "SCHÜCO 211 853 4 multi-point latch lock 'SafeMatic' with anti-panic function," which I consider very useful. Furthermore, I am unsure whether an intercom system with or without video or an integrated door chain would be advisable, although I don’t know if Schüco offers the latter. Is Schüco a good choice at all, or are there suppliers with a better price-performance ratio? Is such an automatic locking system worthwhile? Can it generally replace the need to manually lock the door, or are there significant weaknesses that make the additional cost unjustified?
Windows: The requirements are a bit more complex, so I’ve listed them in bullet points:
- white
- ground floor: RC 2 N
- upper floor: RC 1 N
- electric external roller shutters
- 200 Nm (148 lb-ft) handle torque (I’ve read several times that 100 Nm (74 lb-ft) is not enough)
- triple glazing
The questions that come to mind regarding the windows are:
- push button or lockable handles? (Lockable looks unattractive, and who really locks their windows in everyday life? Is a locked window with a key actually more secure than one with a push button handle?)
- Schüco or another manufacturer?
- which U-value is most economical? (Will the extra cost pay off over time through energy savings?)
- PVC or aluminum?
- Is it better to invest in higher-quality glass or a better frame? Where is the best balance?
- Does anyone know the window manufacturer Morlok from Rötha near Leipzig? Would you recommend them?
Garage: The garage will have a large insulated Hörmann sectional door with an electric drive, as well as a window, a door to the garden, and a door to the house, since it will be built directly attached to the house. The access to the garage will be through the utility room, so the door does not need to meet high aesthetic standards.
Is it sufficient for the exterior garage door to have RC 2 certification, or should the door to the house also meet this standard? From what I understand, the door to the house must be at least a T30 fire door; at another construction site of the builder, this was realized as a metal door, but I have concerns about the thermal insulation.
Which doors should meet which standards here? Are there alternatives to the Hörmann sectional door?
Regardless of the specific points, I am interested in whether the price-performance ratio of the individual products is right. Of course, I want the best value for my money and to use as little as possible to achieve a practical and lasting satisfactory solution. That means I am open to all manufacturers. It does not have to be a well-known brand if this saves money or offers better performance for the same price. I don’t want to pay unnecessarily much but am willing to invest extra for sensible upgrades where possible. What should one pay attention to with the respective products, and which features are worth the money?
Many questions to start with, but I have so much on my mind. Every decision in house building is one that you live with for many years, if not forever, which is why I honestly worry about making a wrong choice or wasting money where it could be better spent elsewhere.
Thank you in advance for your help, and I hope you won’t be too harsh with me.
Best regards,
Markus
S
Sebastian798 Sep 2015 12:49I don't mean that exactly – but I'm happy to be corrected. And even if that were the case, you can still get through with a standard drill – it would just take longer.
And that is what the RC classes are about: not an insurmountable obstacle, but buying time – every extra second deters.
And that is what the RC classes are about: not an insurmountable obstacle, but buying time – every extra second deters.
B
Bauexperte8 Sep 2015 13:39Sebastian79 schrieb:
Especially since you yourself admit you have no knowledge. However, you have a certain level of credibility in this forum – so you should probably handle that carefully – especially since you apparently aren’t even interested. If you quote me, please do it more carefully!
I couldn’t care less what exact metal the fitting or drilling protection is made of; imagine, I don’t have to know that either. The trusted supplier must know and be able to represent it because they provide the warranty to my client.
Regarding competence: According to the dictionary, it means expertise and ability; I don’t see anything about having to “walk on water.” If that’s what you’re looking for or wishing, you’d be better off in the green forum; you do have their style down. Although you seem to find it hard to deal with opposition there; I assume your nickname change here is based on experience from there.
ToNKeY schrieb:
Doesn’t RC 2 already include special steel plates as drilling protection? If these aren’t made of extra-hard metal and can be drilled through with any cheap drill bit, then they make no sense at all, right? Since friend Sebastian unfortunately didn’t answer you (you could have easily checked with Google), I visited, among others, police websites and found the following passages:
*"If you plan to build or replace doors, you should use RC-2 doors for all doors that provide access to your house or apartment. These doors have been tested for burglary resistance according to DIN EN 1627 and have successfully demonstrated that their overall construction—including door leaf, frame, lock, and fitting—has no weak points.
7 resistance classes The DIN EN 1627 standard distinguishes seven resistance classes (resistance class = RC). While classes RC 1 to RC 3 are used primarily in residential areas, classes RC 4 to RC 6 are recommended by the police especially for commercial settings.
Recommendation: RC-2 doors For normal residential use—house or apartment—the police recommend burglary protection with RC-2 doors. Depending on the value of your household goods and your own security needs, RC 3 doors may also be appropriate.
and further:
*"80% of burglaries involve prying open a window or patio door, and about 5% of offenders break the glass slightly to reach the window handle (less than 1% break the entire glass and enter through the sharp-edged opening).
Mushroom-head locking cams, surface-mounted reinforcements, and lockable window handles with mushroom-head cams instead of roller cams in the hardware or with surface-mounted reinforcements make it so difficult to pry open the window that burglars usually give up the attempt. The use of burglary-resistant glazing and/or lockable window handles can prevent glass-breaking entry and unlocking of the window from inside."
as well as:
**"Those who want to protect their windows against burglary should choose models with securely fixed glass and durable locking systems. Ulrich Tschorn, managing director of the Window + Facade Association (VFF) in Frankfurt am Main, points out this is considered secure. According to him, windows are safe if they have lock plates screwed to the frame, a handle with anti-drill protection, and mushroom-head locking cams at multiple corners that resist lifting. Windows in private homes should meet security class RC 2 (Resistance Class).
Front doors are best made from sturdy materials. They have drill-resistant locks or automatically locking multi-point locks. Solid bolts and concealed hinges are also recommended. Tschorn also recommends doors of security class RC 2."
*Source: Zuhause Sicher
**Source: Focus online
If you want to know the exact material used, like Sebastian, please ask the officer during police security consultation. I can warmly recommend this to you; the men and women there do excellent work in burglary prevention awareness!
Best regards, Bauexperte
S
Sebastian798 Sep 2015 13:49I think it’s great how you immediately snap back... really impressive.
By the way, your quotes still don’t mention anything about metal in RC2N...
By the way, your quotes still don’t mention anything about metal in RC2N...
I would really appreciate it if you could take your aggressive comments elsewhere. Nevertheless, I am of course grateful for any helpful information.
I have read a lot about this, but I didn’t remember that a glass break-in occurs in as many as 5% of cases. That clearly explains why a push-button lock or a lock with a removable key are only somewhat effective.
Still, the most practical form of protection is questionable since I know for sure that I definitely won’t lock my patio door every time. I will probably have to be satisfied with successfully defending against forced entry. The locks would then only be actively used during vacation times and on all windows that are never opened.
There is no such thing as 100% security anyway — screw the 6%.
How is it with triple glazing with RC 2 — doesn’t the sash become terribly heavy? Especially for patio doors that are one meter (39 inches) wide, wouldn’t this be noticeable? And it definitely gets a bit darker too — the question is whether one extra pane really makes a significant difference.
Another thought that always troubles me is this: If it is obvious from the outside that the house is very well secured, it might actually attract burglars more because they think there is something valuable inside.
RC 2 N is not visible, but RC 2 certainly is, which worries me a bit in this respect as well.
I have read a lot about this, but I didn’t remember that a glass break-in occurs in as many as 5% of cases. That clearly explains why a push-button lock or a lock with a removable key are only somewhat effective.
Still, the most practical form of protection is questionable since I know for sure that I definitely won’t lock my patio door every time. I will probably have to be satisfied with successfully defending against forced entry. The locks would then only be actively used during vacation times and on all windows that are never opened.
There is no such thing as 100% security anyway — screw the 6%.
How is it with triple glazing with RC 2 — doesn’t the sash become terribly heavy? Especially for patio doors that are one meter (39 inches) wide, wouldn’t this be noticeable? And it definitely gets a bit darker too — the question is whether one extra pane really makes a significant difference.
Another thought that always troubles me is this: If it is obvious from the outside that the house is very well secured, it might actually attract burglars more because they think there is something valuable inside.
RC 2 N is not visible, but RC 2 certainly is, which worries me a bit in this respect as well.
S
Sebastian798 Sep 2015 14:47How can you identify the RC classes from the outside? Especially the difference between RC2 and RC2N?
Bauexperte schrieb:
Contrary to the previous poster, I don’t see any issue with whether a key or push button is used for installation.However, the questioner means the inserted key.
ToNKeY schrieb:
What still really interests me is how the attacks on the handle roses take place. How do burglars open them from the outside?They do this by drilling through the trim or breaking a small part of the window (glass cutter, burning, or simply smashing) and then pushing the window handle using a hook or sturdy wire through this hole. This usually doesn’t work if the handle is locked!
ToNKeY schrieb:
I don’t believe a burglar would risk breaking their neck by standing on a trash bin trying to break open a window on the upper floor, but nothing stops them from bringing a ladder.And I know that burglars don’t usually carry ladders around while roaming. They tend to use entry aids they find on site.
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