Hello everyone,
we are about to start our second attempt at building our dream house, or rather, we have already begun and are currently waiting for a detailed offer with a construction description.
I now need to gradually deal with several topics, such as:
- windows and doors
- central ventilation system with heat recovery
- heating
- possible DIY contributions
- fireplace
Windows and doors will be the first on the list. Our supplier usually works with windows and exterior doors from Schüco and CePal interior doors from Garant.
What concerns me now is whether these manufacturers are a good choice based on my requirements or if it would make sense to tender this part with other manufacturers as well.
My requirements are as follows:
Interior doors: I was thinking of white hollow-core doors with a robust and easy-to-clean surface.
Front door: A standard front door with a side panel, decent thermal insulation, and burglary resistance (RC2). One feature I find particularly appealing is the Schüco "SCHÜCO 211 853 4 multi-point latch lock 'SafeMatic' with anti-panic function," which I consider very useful. Furthermore, I am unsure whether an intercom system with or without video or an integrated door chain would be advisable, although I don’t know if Schüco offers the latter. Is Schüco a good choice at all, or are there suppliers with a better price-performance ratio? Is such an automatic locking system worthwhile? Can it generally replace the need to manually lock the door, or are there significant weaknesses that make the additional cost unjustified?
Windows: The requirements are a bit more complex, so I’ve listed them in bullet points:
- white
- ground floor: RC 2 N
- upper floor: RC 1 N
- electric external roller shutters
- 200 Nm (148 lb-ft) handle torque (I’ve read several times that 100 Nm (74 lb-ft) is not enough)
- triple glazing
The questions that come to mind regarding the windows are:
- push button or lockable handles? (Lockable looks unattractive, and who really locks their windows in everyday life? Is a locked window with a key actually more secure than one with a push button handle?)
- Schüco or another manufacturer?
- which U-value is most economical? (Will the extra cost pay off over time through energy savings?)
- PVC or aluminum?
- Is it better to invest in higher-quality glass or a better frame? Where is the best balance?
- Does anyone know the window manufacturer Morlok from Rötha near Leipzig? Would you recommend them?
Garage: The garage will have a large insulated Hörmann sectional door with an electric drive, as well as a window, a door to the garden, and a door to the house, since it will be built directly attached to the house. The access to the garage will be through the utility room, so the door does not need to meet high aesthetic standards.
Is it sufficient for the exterior garage door to have RC 2 certification, or should the door to the house also meet this standard? From what I understand, the door to the house must be at least a T30 fire door; at another construction site of the builder, this was realized as a metal door, but I have concerns about the thermal insulation.
Which doors should meet which standards here? Are there alternatives to the Hörmann sectional door?
Regardless of the specific points, I am interested in whether the price-performance ratio of the individual products is right. Of course, I want the best value for my money and to use as little as possible to achieve a practical and lasting satisfactory solution. That means I am open to all manufacturers. It does not have to be a well-known brand if this saves money or offers better performance for the same price. I don’t want to pay unnecessarily much but am willing to invest extra for sensible upgrades where possible. What should one pay attention to with the respective products, and which features are worth the money?
Many questions to start with, but I have so much on my mind. Every decision in house building is one that you live with for many years, if not forever, which is why I honestly worry about making a wrong choice or wasting money where it could be better spent elsewhere.
Thank you in advance for your help, and I hope you won’t be too harsh with me.
Best regards,
Markus
we are about to start our second attempt at building our dream house, or rather, we have already begun and are currently waiting for a detailed offer with a construction description.
I now need to gradually deal with several topics, such as:
- windows and doors
- central ventilation system with heat recovery
- heating
- possible DIY contributions
- fireplace
Windows and doors will be the first on the list. Our supplier usually works with windows and exterior doors from Schüco and CePal interior doors from Garant.
What concerns me now is whether these manufacturers are a good choice based on my requirements or if it would make sense to tender this part with other manufacturers as well.
My requirements are as follows:
Interior doors: I was thinking of white hollow-core doors with a robust and easy-to-clean surface.
Front door: A standard front door with a side panel, decent thermal insulation, and burglary resistance (RC2). One feature I find particularly appealing is the Schüco "SCHÜCO 211 853 4 multi-point latch lock 'SafeMatic' with anti-panic function," which I consider very useful. Furthermore, I am unsure whether an intercom system with or without video or an integrated door chain would be advisable, although I don’t know if Schüco offers the latter. Is Schüco a good choice at all, or are there suppliers with a better price-performance ratio? Is such an automatic locking system worthwhile? Can it generally replace the need to manually lock the door, or are there significant weaknesses that make the additional cost unjustified?
Windows: The requirements are a bit more complex, so I’ve listed them in bullet points:
- white
- ground floor: RC 2 N
- upper floor: RC 1 N
- electric external roller shutters
- 200 Nm (148 lb-ft) handle torque (I’ve read several times that 100 Nm (74 lb-ft) is not enough)
- triple glazing
The questions that come to mind regarding the windows are:
- push button or lockable handles? (Lockable looks unattractive, and who really locks their windows in everyday life? Is a locked window with a key actually more secure than one with a push button handle?)
- Schüco or another manufacturer?
- which U-value is most economical? (Will the extra cost pay off over time through energy savings?)
- PVC or aluminum?
- Is it better to invest in higher-quality glass or a better frame? Where is the best balance?
- Does anyone know the window manufacturer Morlok from Rötha near Leipzig? Would you recommend them?
Garage: The garage will have a large insulated Hörmann sectional door with an electric drive, as well as a window, a door to the garden, and a door to the house, since it will be built directly attached to the house. The access to the garage will be through the utility room, so the door does not need to meet high aesthetic standards.
Is it sufficient for the exterior garage door to have RC 2 certification, or should the door to the house also meet this standard? From what I understand, the door to the house must be at least a T30 fire door; at another construction site of the builder, this was realized as a metal door, but I have concerns about the thermal insulation.
Which doors should meet which standards here? Are there alternatives to the Hörmann sectional door?
Regardless of the specific points, I am interested in whether the price-performance ratio of the individual products is right. Of course, I want the best value for my money and to use as little as possible to achieve a practical and lasting satisfactory solution. That means I am open to all manufacturers. It does not have to be a well-known brand if this saves money or offers better performance for the same price. I don’t want to pay unnecessarily much but am willing to invest extra for sensible upgrades where possible. What should one pay attention to with the respective products, and which features are worth the money?
Many questions to start with, but I have so much on my mind. Every decision in house building is one that you live with for many years, if not forever, which is why I honestly worry about making a wrong choice or wasting money where it could be better spent elsewhere.
Thank you in advance for your help, and I hope you won’t be too harsh with me.
Best regards,
Markus
First of all, thank you for your answers. At least regarding burglary protection, I have now made a small step forward. Since only 4 of the 17 windows are on the upper floor, these will probably be installed to RC 2 N standards as well – this shouldn’t cause a wave of additional costs.
I don’t really believe a burglar would risk breaking their neck by standing on a trash bin to try to break a window on the upper floor, but nothing prevents them from bringing a ladder.
I will probably also consult with the police.
What I'm still very interested in is how attacks on the handle locks are carried out. How do burglars open them from the outside? To what extent does a lock or push button help? Why can they get into a locked window with the key left in the lock just as easily as one with a standard or push button handle?
Besides that, I’m still missing user reports and opinions regarding the choice of manufacturers Schüco and Garant.
The planned Hörmann LPU 40 sectional door with electric drive is certified as burglary-resistant, but unfortunately I haven’t been able to find out if it is comparable to RC 2 for windows and doors.
Basically, I would prefer the garage not to be an easy target either.
With all this, I obviously understand that someone who really wants to break in can get in even with RC 2, but basically, the house just needs to be harder to break into than the neighbor’s. ^^
Best regards, Markus
I don’t really believe a burglar would risk breaking their neck by standing on a trash bin to try to break a window on the upper floor, but nothing prevents them from bringing a ladder.
I will probably also consult with the police.
What I'm still very interested in is how attacks on the handle locks are carried out. How do burglars open them from the outside? To what extent does a lock or push button help? Why can they get into a locked window with the key left in the lock just as easily as one with a standard or push button handle?
Besides that, I’m still missing user reports and opinions regarding the choice of manufacturers Schüco and Garant.
The planned Hörmann LPU 40 sectional door with electric drive is certified as burglary-resistant, but unfortunately I haven’t been able to find out if it is comparable to RC 2 for windows and doors.
Basically, I would prefer the garage not to be an easy target either.
With all this, I obviously understand that someone who really wants to break in can get in even with RC 2, but basically, the house just needs to be harder to break into than the neighbor’s. ^^
Best regards, Markus
B
Bauexperte8 Sep 2015 11:15Hello Markus,
Contrary to my predecessor, I don’t see any problem whether it is installed with a key or a push button. The RC II N version is made of carbide; the hardest drill a burglar can get is made of carbide. Carbide on carbide results in a stalemate; whether with a button or key.
In my opinion, this supplier had quality issues in the past, which is why we have not used their products for several years. However, I don’t know the current situation; I may just be set in my ways.
Burglars want to get in quickly and as quietly as possible; any measures that make this more difficult are well-invested money!
Regards, Bauexperte
ToNKeY schrieb:
What still really interests me is how the attacks on the handle olives happen. How do burglars open them from the outside? How helpful is a lock or push button? Why can they get into a locked window with the key inserted just as easily as one with a normal or push button handle?
Contrary to my predecessor, I don’t see any problem whether it is installed with a key or a push button. The RC II N version is made of carbide; the hardest drill a burglar can get is made of carbide. Carbide on carbide results in a stalemate; whether with a button or key.
ToNKeY schrieb:
Aside from that, I’m still missing user experiences and opinions on the choice of the manufacturer Schüco
In my opinion, this supplier had quality issues in the past, which is why we have not used their products for several years. However, I don’t know the current situation; I may just be set in my ways.
ToNKeY schrieb:
With all that said, I’m of course aware that someone who really wants to get in can still do so at RC 2, but basically the house just needs to be harder to break into than the neighbor’s. ^^
Burglars want to get in quickly and as quietly as possible; any measures that make this more difficult are well-invested money!
Regards, Bauexperte
B
Bauexperte8 Sep 2015 12:21ToNKeY schrieb:
Hello Bauexperte, that sounds really interesting. What is the advantage or purpose of fittings with push buttons or keys then? I have no idea, but my gut feeling aligns with Wastl’s answer; if and when there are children in the household.
ToNKeY schrieb:
As I said ... As you can see from Sebastian’s reply, you probably won’t get a definitive answer here in the forum; unless we have a window specialist among us who reads your post.
So your best bet is to keep asking the installing window company until you understand everything and can make a decision.
Best regards, Bauexperte
S
Sebastian798 Sep 2015 12:42Bauexperte schrieb:
Sometimes I really think you are lying in wait... the interesting question is why? Why don’t you use your energy – especially after your recent conversation with your window installer – to provide the original poster with a useful answer to their question?You are definitely mistaken – why would I be lying in wait? I received a notification for the subscribed topic, and such statements make me suspicious – especially since you yourself admit you have no idea. In this forum, however, you have a certain level of expertise – so maybe you should be careful with that, especially since it doesn’t seem to interest you at all.
Again: RC2N has nothing to do with an extra-strong fitting or profile... someone could be misled into a false sense of security by that statement.
Bauexperte schrieb:
I have no idea myself, but my gut feeling leans toward Wastl’s answer, assuming children are part of the household.
As you can see from Sebastian’s response, you probably won’t get a definitive answer here in the forum—unless we have a window installer among us who reads your post.
So your best bet is to keep questioning the window company handling your installation until you fully understand everything and can make an informed decision.
Regards, BauexperteRegarding the locks, I have realized that they certainly make sense on the upper floors. And at least on the ground floor when you are on vacation.
However, for the ground floor, I would prefer push buttons for aesthetic and comfort reasons. I’m not clear on how it matters whether the key is inserted or not, or what difference it makes whether I have a push button or a lockable handle. I always thought the purpose was to prevent the mechanism from being operated. Since an intruder likely can’t operate a push button from the outside either, I don’t understand why this would be less secure than a lock that also can’t be operated from outside.
Where is the flaw or gap in my reasoning?
Of course, the best approach would be to ask a window installer, but I like to be somewhat informed beforehand so I can judge whether they know what they’re talking about or if they might be trying to sell me something I don’t need—or don’t understand themselves.
I just requested an appointment at the nearest police advisory office to see what advice they can offer.
Sebastian79 schrieb:
You are definitely wrong – why would I be lurking? I received a notification for the subscribed topic, and statements like yours raise my doubts, especially since you yourself admit you don’t really know. However, you are considered somewhat knowledgeable in this forum – so you should probably be more careful, especially since it seems you’re not even interested.
Again: RC2N has nothing to do with extra-hard fittings or profiles… someone could be misled into a false sense of security by such a statement.Doesn’t RC2 already include special metal plates as drill protection? Unless these are made from extra-hard metal, and can be pierced with any cheap metal drill bit, they wouldn’t make any sense at all?
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