Hello everyone,
We plan to start the shell construction in March 2021. The building site is in Baden-Württemberg, and for the basement plus one full floor and knee wall floor, we have shortlisted two construction companies based on the received tender prices through a well-known architect.
The tender was based on a fixed price. According to acquaintances, construction companies always include a certain (risk/error) buffer of several thousand euros somewhere in their offers in case something unforeseen happens during construction, so the project doesn’t become a loss for them.
Since our second child is expected in February (parental leave), I plan to contribute a lot during the shell construction. Therefore, we are now considering moving away from a fixed price and working with one of the two companies on a time and materials basis. But which one?
Company A has a price of 214,000 EUR and Company B 227,000 EUR.
In Company A’s offer, the cost for groundwork and masonry work is almost 40,000 EUR more expensive than with Company B (materials + labor costs). On the other hand, Company B has significantly higher site setup costs and a higher hourly wage (which would probably be important for work charged by time).
What questions would you ask the two companies during your discussions to make the right decision afterward? The companies will hardly admit where exactly they have incorporated their buffer.
I’m almost thinking I might manage to negotiate a better price with Company A if I contribute well because:
a) the site setup costs are low, which are usually fixed anyway
b) the hourly wage is lower
The problem is, I don’t know how much of the nearly 40,000 EUR difference in groundwork and masonry is for materials and how much for labor rates. Hm, can you give any advice?
Which items (besides the hourly wage) would you pay attention to if you were to build on a time and materials basis instead of a fixed price?
Many thanks for your suggestions.
We plan to start the shell construction in March 2021. The building site is in Baden-Württemberg, and for the basement plus one full floor and knee wall floor, we have shortlisted two construction companies based on the received tender prices through a well-known architect.
The tender was based on a fixed price. According to acquaintances, construction companies always include a certain (risk/error) buffer of several thousand euros somewhere in their offers in case something unforeseen happens during construction, so the project doesn’t become a loss for them.
Since our second child is expected in February (parental leave), I plan to contribute a lot during the shell construction. Therefore, we are now considering moving away from a fixed price and working with one of the two companies on a time and materials basis. But which one?
Company A has a price of 214,000 EUR and Company B 227,000 EUR.
In Company A’s offer, the cost for groundwork and masonry work is almost 40,000 EUR more expensive than with Company B (materials + labor costs). On the other hand, Company B has significantly higher site setup costs and a higher hourly wage (which would probably be important for work charged by time).
What questions would you ask the two companies during your discussions to make the right decision afterward? The companies will hardly admit where exactly they have incorporated their buffer.
I’m almost thinking I might manage to negotiate a better price with Company A if I contribute well because:
a) the site setup costs are low, which are usually fixed anyway
b) the hourly wage is lower
The problem is, I don’t know how much of the nearly 40,000 EUR difference in groundwork and masonry is for materials and how much for labor rates. Hm, can you give any advice?
Which items (besides the hourly wage) would you pay attention to if you were to build on a time and materials basis instead of a fixed price?
Many thanks for your suggestions.
How do you come to the conclusion there are construction defects?
Of course, I don’t intend to replace any bricklayers or skilled workers, but rather to save on a laborer. A few years ago here in Baden-Württemberg, many people helped their bricklayers by carrying bricks, shoveling sand, cleaning up the construction site in the evenings so the bricklayers could lay bricks 30 to 60 minutes longer, and so on. This only really makes sense if you’re building on a time-and-materials basis. With a fixed price, you don’t benefit from spending extra time carrying bricks in the evening.
I also don’t want to waterproof a basement or take on other tricky tasks that might later cause construction defects.
My qualifications are good physical fitness and no two left hands. But basic helper work should be doable, right? And as I said, if you can save the cost of a laborer for the entire build, that adds up to some money according to my calculations. I’m very surprised that this is so uncommon.
Of course, I don’t intend to replace any bricklayers or skilled workers, but rather to save on a laborer. A few years ago here in Baden-Württemberg, many people helped their bricklayers by carrying bricks, shoveling sand, cleaning up the construction site in the evenings so the bricklayers could lay bricks 30 to 60 minutes longer, and so on. This only really makes sense if you’re building on a time-and-materials basis. With a fixed price, you don’t benefit from spending extra time carrying bricks in the evening.
I also don’t want to waterproof a basement or take on other tricky tasks that might later cause construction defects.
My qualifications are good physical fitness and no two left hands. But basic helper work should be doable, right? And as I said, if you can save the cost of a laborer for the entire build, that adds up to some money according to my calculations. I’m very surprised that this is so uncommon.
Watch processing videos from stone manufacturers to update your understanding of construction workflows. Many things are done very differently today compared to your grandfather’s stories.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
N
nordanney2 Jun 2020 21:09s0nyHess schrieb:
Of course, I don’t intend to replace a bricklayer or skilled worker, but to save on a laborer. Then you might as well forget it. LOL
With your help, the professionals can work much more relaxed (and comfortably). Five more hours of professional work and your laborer’s wage is gone, along with your free time.
11ant schrieb:
Take a look at processing videos from stone manufacturers; they’ll help you update your ideas about construction workflows. Nowadays, many things are done very differently than in your grandfather’s stories. Thanks for finally saying this. Your examples are unfortunately complete nonsense. Bricks are lifted on pallets with a crane onto lifting platforms—there’s no more manual carrying. Sweeping with a broom hasn’t been done for a long time. Debris is either gathered at the end with an excavator or sometimes not at all. As an unskilled worker on the shell construction, you can’t do much except get in the way.
For me, two people raised the shell and watertight basement from mid-October to the end of December. So why would you need a helper? Just for making coffee?
Do what you’re best at—that’s earning money or helping your wife.
And please choose a fixed price contract instead of an hourly rate. Quite a few people have already run into trouble with hourly billing.
It might all sound bad to you right now, but these are truly valuable pieces of advice.
I can’t really comment much, but I can share the experience from our current build. Within two weeks, three workers raised the entire house, brick by brick. In the meantime, after our suggestion, they fenced off the whole construction site with a temporary fence, which for some reason hadn’t been there before. They were such a well-coordinated team, working seamlessly and quietly together. Admittedly, by the end of the day, the site was never tidy. About halfway through, it looked like a pigsty. Because our architect wasn’t happy with that, they were ordered to clean up. So they managed to do that “on the side” within those two weeks as well.
I’d imagine that if I had tried to interfere, the three of them would have spent more time telling me what to do than it would have taken to just do it themselves faster.
I’d imagine that if I had tried to interfere, the three of them would have spent more time telling me what to do than it would have taken to just do it themselves faster.
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