ᐅ Which House Concept? Fundamental Questions for Building a Home
Created on: 20 Sep 2019 11:53
L
Luftpumpe
Hello everyone,
We are fortunate to own a building plot and are now facing the difficult choice of how to proceed. For several months, we have been researching, visiting model homes, and actively reading forums. When it comes to layouts and features, opinions vary greatly, and depending on budget and taste, the possibilities seem endless.
But when it comes to the fundamental question of how to build today in an affordable, efficient, and above all healthy way, there should at least be a rough consensus! From everything we have read so far, we would probably prefer to build a Thoma house (36cm (14 inches) Holz100 walls), but financially that probably won’t be possible.
When we look for alternatives, we are often told that KFW40 (KFW40 / Passive House standards) is not achievable, that breathable construction is impossible, and that a mechanical ventilation with heat recovery system is absolutely necessary. Then, you keep searching and come across more “alternative” options like LowTec Bio Solar houses, which seems a bit too extreme for us.
We want to build a house free of harmful substances, and avoiding various materials is the best way to be sure that in a few years, nothing new will be found to be problematic. In this sense, a pure timber house does make some sense.
Then, the advice is that solar thermal systems are not worth it, so photovoltaic systems on the roof should be used instead. To make good use of that, a heat pump is necessary, and then air-to-air heat pumps are offered because geothermal with underfloor heating is so much more expensive. So, it’s either robbing a bank or making compromises.
And that’s exactly the kind of compromises we are looking for now. Who has chosen a particular building concept and for what reasons? Is a vapor barrier really necessary in the building envelope? Which heating and insulation technologies are still cost-effective today? And how do I create the healthiest possible indoor climate?
Thank you & best regards,
Luftpumpe
We are fortunate to own a building plot and are now facing the difficult choice of how to proceed. For several months, we have been researching, visiting model homes, and actively reading forums. When it comes to layouts and features, opinions vary greatly, and depending on budget and taste, the possibilities seem endless.
But when it comes to the fundamental question of how to build today in an affordable, efficient, and above all healthy way, there should at least be a rough consensus! From everything we have read so far, we would probably prefer to build a Thoma house (36cm (14 inches) Holz100 walls), but financially that probably won’t be possible.
When we look for alternatives, we are often told that KFW40 (KFW40 / Passive House standards) is not achievable, that breathable construction is impossible, and that a mechanical ventilation with heat recovery system is absolutely necessary. Then, you keep searching and come across more “alternative” options like LowTec Bio Solar houses, which seems a bit too extreme for us.
We want to build a house free of harmful substances, and avoiding various materials is the best way to be sure that in a few years, nothing new will be found to be problematic. In this sense, a pure timber house does make some sense.
Then, the advice is that solar thermal systems are not worth it, so photovoltaic systems on the roof should be used instead. To make good use of that, a heat pump is necessary, and then air-to-air heat pumps are offered because geothermal with underfloor heating is so much more expensive. So, it’s either robbing a bank or making compromises.
And that’s exactly the kind of compromises we are looking for now. Who has chosen a particular building concept and for what reasons? Is a vapor barrier really necessary in the building envelope? Which heating and insulation technologies are still cost-effective today? And how do I create the healthiest possible indoor climate?
Thank you & best regards,
Luftpumpe
L
Luftpumpe8 Oct 2019 11:16RotorMotor schrieb:
What reasons were given against the mechanical ventilation with heat recovery?
Would you still consider installing it? If yes, at what cost? Yes, they have partners for almost everything, and we also took a brief look at the price list. If choosing mechanical ventilation with heat recovery, the air heating system (Proxon) would be recommended – according to the salesperson. But they also install a pure mechanical ventilation system alone for 10,000 to 15,000 euros (manufacturer name I didn’t note).
haydee schrieb:
Why do leaves fall off plants? Because the air is so dry that all cut flowers and houseplants dry out…
haydee schrieb:
Is deep drilling possible where you are? No idea. How can I find out and what does it depend on?
11ant schrieb:
I strongly assume that the new solution, which seems good now, will be criticized in ten years. You’re referring to mechanical ventilation with heat recovery, and apart from the relatively high initial cost, which seems disproportionate considering the simple technology, I currently see no reason why your statement should turn out to be true. If necessary, such a system can simply be switched off. These units are specifically installed to improve indoor air quality, and ventilation systems themselves are not a new invention. Some maintenance and care are part of any system. How does the ventilation system inside your car look from the inside?
My plants are still alive despite the ventilation system and my watering habits. When the air outside is dry during winter, no ventilation system can bring humidity into the rooms. So why do many people place bowls of water on their radiators?
What might help is a clay plaster that, for example, absorbs the moisture released from cooking and later releases it back into the air.
How is air exchange ensured in the house concept you are considering? Is it through trickle vents in the window frame or fully opening the windows? This house will be airtight like all others.
Do not install a pure air heating system—especially if you don’t have a passive house. In that case, the system immediately switches to electric heating if the heat recovery ventilation (HRV) is not sufficient. Tecalor and Stiebel offer a system that is more efficient. It is a hybrid of a conventional air-to-water heat pump and an air-to-air heat pump.
Regarding geothermal drilling, check with the building authority. We are in a protected spa area and were not allowed to do it.
What might help is a clay plaster that, for example, absorbs the moisture released from cooking and later releases it back into the air.
How is air exchange ensured in the house concept you are considering? Is it through trickle vents in the window frame or fully opening the windows? This house will be airtight like all others.
Do not install a pure air heating system—especially if you don’t have a passive house. In that case, the system immediately switches to electric heating if the heat recovery ventilation (HRV) is not sufficient. Tecalor and Stiebel offer a system that is more efficient. It is a hybrid of a conventional air-to-water heat pump and an air-to-air heat pump.
Regarding geothermal drilling, check with the building authority. We are in a protected spa area and were not allowed to do it.
L
Luftpumpe8 Oct 2019 21:32Yes, the Proxon air heating system is not an option for our house. There is no water protection area or anything similar here. The only question is whether the drill can go through the stone, but the Isowood seller said they have already had drilling done in our area several times...
We also visited Stommel Haus and received their building service description, which allowed us to compare. I didn’t find anything about air exchange at Isowood; Stommel Haus mentions window rebate ventilation. Their wall construction only achieves KfW 55 standard, and what was promised as jute turns into "sustainable and very ecological" glass wool from Knauf with Ecose binder in the building service description.
Somehow, we felt we were not taken completely seriously. Unlike Isowood, we did not receive detailed information about the wall and roof construction and had to extract all details from the salesperson. The attitude was somewhat arrogant, and it was made clear that their usual customers tend to have more money. Additionally, their order books are full, and they would only focus on our project if we are “quite sure we want to build with Stommel Haus.” The price is definitely in a different league, but I also wonder what the final costs would really be for both. For example, parquet flooring: Isowood estimates €20 (or maybe €25, I’d have to check) per square meter, while Stommel Haus charges €61!
Still, I find Isowood’s transparency appealing, and even if you estimate a bit more generously, their prices remain well below Stommel Haus’s quotes. What I really like about Stommel Haus is the installation level. Allegedly, you can simply unscrew the baseboards and then pull new cables. With all other timber prefabricated houses, you need very detailed planning, and all recesses for pipes, conduits, and cables are prefabricated at the factory. Changes afterward are apparently not easily possible... but if planning is good, how often is that really necessary?
Next, we wanted to take a look at Nordhaus. They also have many years of experience and seem to be competitively priced. They also use that Ecose stuff from Knauf. Let’s see what they say about controlled residential ventilation and heating.
Best regards
We also visited Stommel Haus and received their building service description, which allowed us to compare. I didn’t find anything about air exchange at Isowood; Stommel Haus mentions window rebate ventilation. Their wall construction only achieves KfW 55 standard, and what was promised as jute turns into "sustainable and very ecological" glass wool from Knauf with Ecose binder in the building service description.
Somehow, we felt we were not taken completely seriously. Unlike Isowood, we did not receive detailed information about the wall and roof construction and had to extract all details from the salesperson. The attitude was somewhat arrogant, and it was made clear that their usual customers tend to have more money. Additionally, their order books are full, and they would only focus on our project if we are “quite sure we want to build with Stommel Haus.” The price is definitely in a different league, but I also wonder what the final costs would really be for both. For example, parquet flooring: Isowood estimates €20 (or maybe €25, I’d have to check) per square meter, while Stommel Haus charges €61!
Still, I find Isowood’s transparency appealing, and even if you estimate a bit more generously, their prices remain well below Stommel Haus’s quotes. What I really like about Stommel Haus is the installation level. Allegedly, you can simply unscrew the baseboards and then pull new cables. With all other timber prefabricated houses, you need very detailed planning, and all recesses for pipes, conduits, and cables are prefabricated at the factory. Changes afterward are apparently not easily possible... but if planning is good, how often is that really necessary?
Next, we wanted to take a look at Nordhaus. They also have many years of experience and seem to be competitively priced. They also use that Ecose stuff from Knauf. Let’s see what they say about controlled residential ventilation and heating.
Best regards
Ask Isowood how the minimum air exchange and moisture protection are ensured.
Parquet flooring for 25 euros? Good quality laminate costs more than that.
Ours cost around 80 euros including installation and was rather on the lower price range. Not plank flooring, but solid single-layer hardwood.
And how is the cable routed from the floor to the socket? With a router? With good planning, nothing should have to be done after moving in.
If you don’t feel well taken care of, then don’t proceed. You are the customer. You are investing a lot of money.
Consider moving away from the big companies to a local carpenter. Your budget is very tight. Carpenters who build two houses a year are often flexible and collaborate with local companies.
Parquet flooring for 25 euros? Good quality laminate costs more than that.
Ours cost around 80 euros including installation and was rather on the lower price range. Not plank flooring, but solid single-layer hardwood.
And how is the cable routed from the floor to the socket? With a router? With good planning, nothing should have to be done after moving in.
If you don’t feel well taken care of, then don’t proceed. You are the customer. You are investing a lot of money.
Consider moving away from the big companies to a local carpenter. Your budget is very tight. Carpenters who build two houses a year are often flexible and collaborate with local companies.
H
hampshire8 Oct 2019 23:58haydee schrieb:
And how does the cable get from the floor to the box? With a router? With good planning, nothing should be done after moving in. With an installation level, nothing is routed out. There is a generous gap within the wall construction for cables and pipes. Only in the case of wooden cross beams in the installation level do you drill a passage when retrofitting and possibly a hole, for example, for an electrical outlet. It’s quite practical.
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