ᐅ Which House Concept? Fundamental Questions for Building a Home
Created on: 20 Sep 2019 11:53
L
Luftpumpe
Hello everyone,
We are fortunate to own a building plot and are now facing the difficult choice of how to proceed. For several months, we have been researching, visiting model homes, and actively reading forums. When it comes to layouts and features, opinions vary greatly, and depending on budget and taste, the possibilities seem endless.
But when it comes to the fundamental question of how to build today in an affordable, efficient, and above all healthy way, there should at least be a rough consensus! From everything we have read so far, we would probably prefer to build a Thoma house (36cm (14 inches) Holz100 walls), but financially that probably won’t be possible.
When we look for alternatives, we are often told that KFW40 (KFW40 / Passive House standards) is not achievable, that breathable construction is impossible, and that a mechanical ventilation with heat recovery system is absolutely necessary. Then, you keep searching and come across more “alternative” options like LowTec Bio Solar houses, which seems a bit too extreme for us.
We want to build a house free of harmful substances, and avoiding various materials is the best way to be sure that in a few years, nothing new will be found to be problematic. In this sense, a pure timber house does make some sense.
Then, the advice is that solar thermal systems are not worth it, so photovoltaic systems on the roof should be used instead. To make good use of that, a heat pump is necessary, and then air-to-air heat pumps are offered because geothermal with underfloor heating is so much more expensive. So, it’s either robbing a bank or making compromises.
And that’s exactly the kind of compromises we are looking for now. Who has chosen a particular building concept and for what reasons? Is a vapor barrier really necessary in the building envelope? Which heating and insulation technologies are still cost-effective today? And how do I create the healthiest possible indoor climate?
Thank you & best regards,
Luftpumpe
We are fortunate to own a building plot and are now facing the difficult choice of how to proceed. For several months, we have been researching, visiting model homes, and actively reading forums. When it comes to layouts and features, opinions vary greatly, and depending on budget and taste, the possibilities seem endless.
But when it comes to the fundamental question of how to build today in an affordable, efficient, and above all healthy way, there should at least be a rough consensus! From everything we have read so far, we would probably prefer to build a Thoma house (36cm (14 inches) Holz100 walls), but financially that probably won’t be possible.
When we look for alternatives, we are often told that KFW40 (KFW40 / Passive House standards) is not achievable, that breathable construction is impossible, and that a mechanical ventilation with heat recovery system is absolutely necessary. Then, you keep searching and come across more “alternative” options like LowTec Bio Solar houses, which seems a bit too extreme for us.
We want to build a house free of harmful substances, and avoiding various materials is the best way to be sure that in a few years, nothing new will be found to be problematic. In this sense, a pure timber house does make some sense.
Then, the advice is that solar thermal systems are not worth it, so photovoltaic systems on the roof should be used instead. To make good use of that, a heat pump is necessary, and then air-to-air heat pumps are offered because geothermal with underfloor heating is so much more expensive. So, it’s either robbing a bank or making compromises.
And that’s exactly the kind of compromises we are looking for now. Who has chosen a particular building concept and for what reasons? Is a vapor barrier really necessary in the building envelope? Which heating and insulation technologies are still cost-effective today? And how do I create the healthiest possible indoor climate?
Thank you & best regards,
Luftpumpe
@Luftpumpe Münsterland, no basement due to flat plot, KfW 55 standard – but the wall construction also meets KfW 40 requirements.
Heating: air-to-water heat pump
Living area is about 145 sqm (1560 sq ft), floor area accordingly larger (no exact idea – around 160 sqm (1720 sq ft)?). The floor plan is as large as necessary, as small as possible (we have many rooms). Our contact person immediately guided us in the right direction, but we also knew quite well what we wanted.
But I don’t want to promote too much here. Solid wood construction also appealed to us a lot! However, we didn’t find any company that really convinced us. We only searched locally and quickly settled on our current provider.
I’m curious what results you will have! And don’t let yourself be pushed too much in either direction – both have their pros and cons, and ultimately you have to follow your gut feeling.
Heating: air-to-water heat pump
Living area is about 145 sqm (1560 sq ft), floor area accordingly larger (no exact idea – around 160 sqm (1720 sq ft)?). The floor plan is as large as necessary, as small as possible (we have many rooms). Our contact person immediately guided us in the right direction, but we also knew quite well what we wanted.
But I don’t want to promote too much here. Solid wood construction also appealed to us a lot! However, we didn’t find any company that really convinced us. We only searched locally and quickly settled on our current provider.
I’m curious what results you will have! And don’t let yourself be pushed too much in either direction – both have their pros and cons, and ultimately you have to follow your gut feeling.
L
Luftpumpe20 Sep 2019 16:43Ha ha, if my gut had to decide, I wouldn’t take out a loan or build at all.
I don’t have a good feeling about the global economy, and to put it mildly, things look pretty bad in the eurozone as well. How are banks supposed to survive in the future if there are no more interest rates? And if interest rates rise, it won’t just hit homebuilders, but entire industries. But let’s see what happens...
I’m a logical person and so far I’m convinced of solid wood construction, but it doesn’t have to be exotic wood. Even though I really like the glue-free construction method used by Thoma. However, other providers, including local ones, offer something similar and will be considered in our selection.
Right now, my head tells me that a strip foundation house would be a good choice. They have such a great website that almost no questions remain unanswered. If the price is right and we get a good salesperson/consultant, I’m actually ready to forego eco-friendly insulation materials and go with good old mineral wool. Even though the wall design seems somewhat complex to me, this construction method has obviously proven itself. However, it is not vapor-open. I would replace an air-to-air heat pump for heating and ventilation as they have in the standard setup with separate controlled residential ventilation and an air-to-water heat pump with underfloor heating. Above all, having everything from a single source seems very appealing to me.
I don’t have a good feeling about the global economy, and to put it mildly, things look pretty bad in the eurozone as well. How are banks supposed to survive in the future if there are no more interest rates? And if interest rates rise, it won’t just hit homebuilders, but entire industries. But let’s see what happens...
I’m a logical person and so far I’m convinced of solid wood construction, but it doesn’t have to be exotic wood. Even though I really like the glue-free construction method used by Thoma. However, other providers, including local ones, offer something similar and will be considered in our selection.
Right now, my head tells me that a strip foundation house would be a good choice. They have such a great website that almost no questions remain unanswered. If the price is right and we get a good salesperson/consultant, I’m actually ready to forego eco-friendly insulation materials and go with good old mineral wool. Even though the wall design seems somewhat complex to me, this construction method has obviously proven itself. However, it is not vapor-open. I would replace an air-to-air heat pump for heating and ventilation as they have in the standard setup with separate controlled residential ventilation and an air-to-water heat pump with underfloor heating. Above all, having everything from a single source seems very appealing to me.
The scope of work specification is the scope of work specification.
This defines what is included in the house price without any additions.
There are significant differences, and anything labeled as "customer’s responsibility" means the homeowner has the pleasure of paying for it.
We are satisfied with our house.
We would build with the same provider again.
I cannot say much about heating costs yet. We have a pilot system that experienced some initial issues during the first heating season. Nevertheless, we achieved an annual performance factor of 2.9. I expect more accurate results in spring after the second heating season, once the initial problems have been resolved.
We chose a passive house because I always wanted one. I find it fascinating. Back then, 3-liter houses were still considered an exotic eco-craze, and a house that now just meets the current energy saving regulations is seen as high-end insulation mania.
From today’s economic perspective, current energy saving regulations are probably neither more nor less than a standard.
What will happen in 30 or 50 years is uncertain.
I don’t see wood as unequivocally ecological. Where does the timber come from?
A significant amount of wood is imported.
This defines what is included in the house price without any additions.
There are significant differences, and anything labeled as "customer’s responsibility" means the homeowner has the pleasure of paying for it.
We are satisfied with our house.
We would build with the same provider again.
I cannot say much about heating costs yet. We have a pilot system that experienced some initial issues during the first heating season. Nevertheless, we achieved an annual performance factor of 2.9. I expect more accurate results in spring after the second heating season, once the initial problems have been resolved.
We chose a passive house because I always wanted one. I find it fascinating. Back then, 3-liter houses were still considered an exotic eco-craze, and a house that now just meets the current energy saving regulations is seen as high-end insulation mania.
From today’s economic perspective, current energy saving regulations are probably neither more nor less than a standard.
What will happen in 30 or 50 years is uncertain.
I don’t see wood as unequivocally ecological. Where does the timber come from?
A significant amount of wood is imported.
Luftpumpe schrieb:
We want to build a pollutant-free houseEveryone wants that... everyone here and out there. No pollutants.
Lenschke schrieb:
Our company mostly builds without a mechanical ventilation system, and that works fine.Haha, all those cheap or budget builders just leave the choice to the client: they simply let the homeowners decide.
Luftpumpe schrieb:
We only want to reach the upper budget limit if there's no other way. Without land, around 300-400k€ (approx. 320-430k USD).Honestly, that’s not enough if you also need to cover additional construction costs and exterior landscaping from that.
Single-family house KfW 70, 160 sqm (1722 sq ft) solid construction 320,000€
Prefabricated construction 350,000€
Additional building costs 30,000€
Painting and flooring in DIY 10,000€
Double carport 15,000€
Exterior landscaping 20,000€
Luftpumpe schrieb:
And yes, nowadays there are many providers building massive wood or solid wood houses without glue. From wood screws to beech wood dowels that swell from moisture still in the wood, there are various solutions. And wooden stud walls without vapor barriers do exist, including ecological wood fiber insulation, cellulose, wool, etc., and also houses made from straw bales!With that budget, we don’t need to discuss those options.
Luftpumpe schrieb:
Also, in an "eco-house" I don’t necessarily need furniture made only from moon wood by the carpenter, nor do I plan to walk barefoot all day in linen clothes. The world is not black and white.Exactly, but in the end most homeowners settle for practical laminate flooring.
Luftpumpe schrieb:
Currently, we are planning a 2.5-story house with about 160 sqm (1722 sq ft). But since size is the main cost driver, we would probably make compromises here. The focus is on the three children's rooms and the office; we don’t care much about large bathrooms because we spend little time there. We want to leave some money for exterior landscaping as well.You can’t save much on the size.
Luftpumpe schrieb:
There are also good examples of buildings without controlled residential ventilation and without heating that are still warm enough in winter. Super insulation, large window areas, and the right location make it possible with perfect planning.Then you will have electric heating.
Luftpumpe schrieb:
I just don’t want to bet on the wrong horse, like people who relied on storage heaters back in the day.But those are coming back again, aren’t they?
Luftpumpe schrieb:
If I want a wellness temple, I’ll go to a thermal bath—not the bathroom.Wrong, see above: it’s not just black or white. People want comfort at home, and since you can’t spend all your time in a hammam with a family of five, you build a nice shower, a nice bathroom.
It would be quite unfortunate to build a passive house for Greta with a simple, cheap bathroom that lacks a relaxing atmosphere...
Luftpumpe schrieb:
Had a discussion yesterday with a prefab house builder... Me: There are also passive houses, right? He: Yes, but we don’t offer those. Some homeowners have even moved out of their passive houses after a few years and built 'normal' houses again. Me: Thanks for the conversation...???
Luftpumpe schrieb:
Ha ha, if I had to go by my gut, I wouldn’t take out a loan or build at all.
I don’t have a good feeling about the global economy.Just get rid of the money. It will be worthless eventually.
ypg schrieb:
Building a passive house for Greta would be quite a challengeCurrently, the discussion is about “healthy living.”
What is ecologically meaningful is a different matter altogether.
You then have to ask where the wood actually comes from. Including the realization that “just around the corner” is no guarantee for sustainability. A Wiesenhof chicken is still a Wiesenhof chicken, even if it comes from the neighborhood.
About 250,000 to 300,000 kWh of energy go into building a house. Is that ecologically sensible?
H
hampshire21 Sep 2019 14:31There are many house concepts available. If someone doesn’t care about “healthy living,” they simply build cheaper. To find a good concept, it’s worth spending some time in different houses and sensing how comfortable you feel in them. Almost all prefab houses we looked at failed to meet our expectations, and we also didn’t feel comfortable in houses with mechanical ventilation systems — just the thought of all the gunk in the filters put us off — but that doesn’t mean mechanical ventilation is bad. As I said, it’s a matter of preference. The Isowood house in both Frechen and Cologne made a very positive impression on us. That could have been a suitable option for us, but in the end, we decided on a more elaborate house with more detailed input, built with local craftsmen — timber construction, clay plaster, masonry stove, photovoltaic system. We also liked Stommel Haus and Baufritz.
Following KfW standards is more of a financial consideration. These ratings say nothing about the quality of a house, nor about how comfortable you will feel in it.
I’m not a fan of highly technical, sealed, mechanically ventilated “Tupperware” boxes built to KfW and airtightness record values that are common nowadays; I often find these houses feel stuffy and oppressive quickly. Everyone is different.
My advice is to trust experience. Even if you are more of a “thinking type,” you’ll do well with this approach.
Following KfW standards is more of a financial consideration. These ratings say nothing about the quality of a house, nor about how comfortable you will feel in it.
I’m not a fan of highly technical, sealed, mechanically ventilated “Tupperware” boxes built to KfW and airtightness record values that are common nowadays; I often find these houses feel stuffy and oppressive quickly. Everyone is different.
My advice is to trust experience. Even if you are more of a “thinking type,” you’ll do well with this approach.
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