ᐅ Which heating system would you choose for our planned new build?
Created on: 24 Jan 2016 11:25
F
Frenzi
Hello everyone,
I have already read a lot in this great forum, but somehow I’m not making any progress.
Maybe you can help me...
We (a couple in our mid-50s) are planning, possibly, to sell our semi-detached house (prefabricated house with about 115 sqm (1235 sq ft) built in 1999) and build a detached single-family home.
Here are the basic details of the house:
- Prefabricated house with panel construction, approx. 125 sqm (1345 sq ft) on a slab foundation without a basement, exterior wall U-value about 0.14
- 2 people (kids have moved out)
- South-facing plot
- Fully developed new residential area (gas available)
- Targeting KfW 55 standard to potentially qualify for subsidies (but not mandatory)
We have spent several weeks researching and have some non-binding offers. According to these, such a house will cost us turnkey around 230,000 with a standard heating system.
We don’t want to spend too much, even though our current house is mortgage-free. But we’re not getting any younger. When selling our current home, we will have about two-thirds equity available, so we would need to take out a loan for at least one-third.
That’s why I’m paying particular attention to the cost-effectiveness of the heating system. Because what good are the claimed top values of different heating types if the extra costs only pay off after 25 years and I’m already six feet under on the plot?
So, here are the options I’m currently considering:
1. Standard gas boiler (condensing) with underfloor heating (cost about 2,500 in gas connection fees for the house)
2. Nibe exhaust air heat pump F730 at no extra cost (so saving the gas connection)
3. Air-to-water heat pump Elco S05 (COP value 4.0) surcharge 7,000 (net 4,500 after deducting no gas connection)
4. Stiebel Eltron LWZ 304 integral system surcharge 11,500 (net 9,000)
5. Ground-source heat pump Vaillant flexoCompact surcharge 10,900 (net 8,400)
For options 1, 3, and 5, we would like to use a controlled ventilation system with heat recovery (Zehnder 350D), which would cost us about 2,000 due to a promotion. For options 2 and 4, this would not be necessary. A solar system for domestic hot water for option 1 would cost about 3,500.
Some home builders recommend the Proxon system (Proxon Zimmermann ventilation). However, I quickly ruled this out after some research. I also have concerns about the Nibe system that I might end up paying more because I may need to use electric backup heating in winter.
Currently, our gas bill for two people in our house is about 70 per month (condensing boiler and underfloor heating).
I would prefer to avoid a gas connection to reduce dependence on one energy source. Photovoltaics interest me, but I think they are still too expensive right now. I would have a conduit installed for future preparation. A pellet heating system is not an option due to lack of storage space.
My current conclusion:
I’m leaning either toward
1. Gas boiler without solar hot water plus ventilation system (total additional cost with gas connection about 4,500) or
2. Elco air-to-water heat pump plus ventilation system (total cost about 6,500).
I am very unsure about option 2 (Nibe exhaust air pump), although the architect says it is sufficient and economical. It would cost us no extra money and no gas connection for the house.
Which type of heating would you choose?
What makes sense and what doesn’t? (Not considering environmental factors)
Thank you in advance for your opinions!
Regards,
Frenzi
I have already read a lot in this great forum, but somehow I’m not making any progress.
Maybe you can help me...
We (a couple in our mid-50s) are planning, possibly, to sell our semi-detached house (prefabricated house with about 115 sqm (1235 sq ft) built in 1999) and build a detached single-family home.
Here are the basic details of the house:
- Prefabricated house with panel construction, approx. 125 sqm (1345 sq ft) on a slab foundation without a basement, exterior wall U-value about 0.14
- 2 people (kids have moved out)
- South-facing plot
- Fully developed new residential area (gas available)
- Targeting KfW 55 standard to potentially qualify for subsidies (but not mandatory)
We have spent several weeks researching and have some non-binding offers. According to these, such a house will cost us turnkey around 230,000 with a standard heating system.
We don’t want to spend too much, even though our current house is mortgage-free. But we’re not getting any younger. When selling our current home, we will have about two-thirds equity available, so we would need to take out a loan for at least one-third.
That’s why I’m paying particular attention to the cost-effectiveness of the heating system. Because what good are the claimed top values of different heating types if the extra costs only pay off after 25 years and I’m already six feet under on the plot?
So, here are the options I’m currently considering:
1. Standard gas boiler (condensing) with underfloor heating (cost about 2,500 in gas connection fees for the house)
2. Nibe exhaust air heat pump F730 at no extra cost (so saving the gas connection)
3. Air-to-water heat pump Elco S05 (COP value 4.0) surcharge 7,000 (net 4,500 after deducting no gas connection)
4. Stiebel Eltron LWZ 304 integral system surcharge 11,500 (net 9,000)
5. Ground-source heat pump Vaillant flexoCompact surcharge 10,900 (net 8,400)
For options 1, 3, and 5, we would like to use a controlled ventilation system with heat recovery (Zehnder 350D), which would cost us about 2,000 due to a promotion. For options 2 and 4, this would not be necessary. A solar system for domestic hot water for option 1 would cost about 3,500.
Some home builders recommend the Proxon system (Proxon Zimmermann ventilation). However, I quickly ruled this out after some research. I also have concerns about the Nibe system that I might end up paying more because I may need to use electric backup heating in winter.
Currently, our gas bill for two people in our house is about 70 per month (condensing boiler and underfloor heating).
I would prefer to avoid a gas connection to reduce dependence on one energy source. Photovoltaics interest me, but I think they are still too expensive right now. I would have a conduit installed for future preparation. A pellet heating system is not an option due to lack of storage space.
My current conclusion:
I’m leaning either toward
1. Gas boiler without solar hot water plus ventilation system (total additional cost with gas connection about 4,500) or
2. Elco air-to-water heat pump plus ventilation system (total cost about 6,500).
I am very unsure about option 2 (Nibe exhaust air pump), although the architect says it is sufficient and economical. It would cost us no extra money and no gas connection for the house.
Which type of heating would you choose?
What makes sense and what doesn’t? (Not considering environmental factors)
Thank you in advance for your opinions!
Regards,
Frenzi
Frenzi schrieb:
By now, I am so uncertain that I have no idea what to do next.... :-( Hello Frenzi,
I personally find the comment from user Saruss here very valuable and helpful in reducing your uncertainty.
Read what he said: 50 euros per month and then saving a bit?
Saruss is absolutely right. You are already in that range with a KfW 70 standard.
Best regards,
Thorsten
(PS: I like it warm in the house, and with a gas boiler we pay 48 euros/month including hot water; when the wood stove has been running for several months, we use 40% less gas (but with wood costs); KfW 70, solar thermal for domestic hot water, about 140 sqm (1500 sq ft) of usable floor area; however, we also pay a high gas price of 6.4 ct/kWh, which could be cheaper)
(PS2: Saruss is also right about the heating system’s output. It has to be able to modulate as low as possible. My small boiler can only modulate down to 23% = about a bit more than 3 kW. There isn’t anything smaller on the market. In 90% of cases, the system runs at 23% and no lower when heating. It was already difficult to get the unit to stop short cycling! Because 3 kW heating output is often still too much, even at temperatures well below 0°C (32°F). Many people—especially new builders—have little idea how little energy a house built to the Anno-Tuck KfW 70 standard actually needs.)
Hello
1 That’s possible
2 Never!! an exhaust air heat pump max for domestic hot water production
3 That’s also a solution
4 If you want to heat without gas or can’t meet the targets with option one,
this would be my favorite because it includes controlled residential ventilation
5 Does that include the heat source connection?
Regarding items 1, 3, and 5, the idea that a complete controlled residential ventilation system could be installed for €2,000 (about $2,200) seems highly doubtful.
That amount barely covers the device price.
Unlike Rübe, I find the additional cost for item 4 justified, as I assume that supply and exhaust air, as well as intake and outlet air, are included in the extra price.
Olli
1 That’s possible
2 Never!! an exhaust air heat pump max for domestic hot water production
3 That’s also a solution
4 If you want to heat without gas or can’t meet the targets with option one,
this would be my favorite because it includes controlled residential ventilation
5 Does that include the heat source connection?
Regarding items 1, 3, and 5, the idea that a complete controlled residential ventilation system could be installed for €2,000 (about $2,200) seems highly doubtful.
That amount barely covers the device price.
Unlike Rübe, I find the additional cost for item 4 justified, as I assume that supply and exhaust air, as well as intake and outlet air, are included in the extra price.
Olli
D
Doc.Schnaggls25 Jan 2016 10:47Hello,
my favorite would also be number 4.
We have the slightly larger version 403 (from Tecalor – a company affiliated with Stiebel Eltron) and are more than satisfied with it.
The system works well, and the electric auxiliary heater has only operated once so far (when the heating was first started), and that was for just under an hour.
Regards,
Dirk
my favorite would also be number 4.
We have the slightly larger version 403 (from Tecalor – a company affiliated with Stiebel Eltron) and are more than satisfied with it.
The system works well, and the electric auxiliary heater has only operated once so far (when the heating was first started), and that was for just under an hour.
Regards,
Dirk
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