Hello,
we are currently planning the necessary renovation and refurbishment work for a two-family house built in 1958.
The question arises whether the heating pipes of an oil central heating system installed in 1977 should be replaced while the wall is already opened up, since the electrical wiring and water pipes for the bathrooms are to be renewed.
The oil central heating system (from 2001) does not need to be replaced at the moment, according to the chimney sweep’s assessment, as it “will still meet all requirements for the next 10 years.”
In principle, we want to do what is necessary, but we do not intend to achieve new-build standards here, unfortunately the budget does not allow for that.
So the question is, what is the typical lifespan of heating pipes from 1977?
we are currently planning the necessary renovation and refurbishment work for a two-family house built in 1958.
The question arises whether the heating pipes of an oil central heating system installed in 1977 should be replaced while the wall is already opened up, since the electrical wiring and water pipes for the bathrooms are to be renewed.
The oil central heating system (from 2001) does not need to be replaced at the moment, according to the chimney sweep’s assessment, as it “will still meet all requirements for the next 10 years.”
In principle, we want to do what is necessary, but we do not intend to achieve new-build standards here, unfortunately the budget does not allow for that.
So the question is, what is the typical lifespan of heating pipes from 1977?
Hi,
Well, without a crystal ball, no one can say whether the pipes will last another 10 years. In my parents’ house, built in 1971, the original pipes were still in place when it was sold in 2012 (by the way, also the original heating system, which always frustrated our heating engineer a lot. But we actually used less oil than our neighbors with modernized heating systems…). In my parents’ current house (built in 1976), the original pipes are still there as well.
However, there are now problems with the water pipes—they are clogged with lime scale. You’re planning to replace those anyway.
If you are already turning the place into a shell, I would replace the pipes if at all possible. If I were you, I wouldn’t want to have to break into all the walls again five years after a major renovation or refurbishment.
And you will most likely have to stick with an oil or gas heating system with conventional radiators. A heat pump with underfloor heating requires very good thermal insulation to be economical. This will be very difficult in a house from the 1950s. If you want to upgrade the house to a modern insulation standard with underfloor heating, you will probably be better off building new soon… It simply won’t be cost-effective!
Best regards,
Andreas
Well, without a crystal ball, no one can say whether the pipes will last another 10 years. In my parents’ house, built in 1971, the original pipes were still in place when it was sold in 2012 (by the way, also the original heating system, which always frustrated our heating engineer a lot. But we actually used less oil than our neighbors with modernized heating systems…). In my parents’ current house (built in 1976), the original pipes are still there as well.
However, there are now problems with the water pipes—they are clogged with lime scale. You’re planning to replace those anyway.
If you are already turning the place into a shell, I would replace the pipes if at all possible. If I were you, I wouldn’t want to have to break into all the walls again five years after a major renovation or refurbishment.
And you will most likely have to stick with an oil or gas heating system with conventional radiators. A heat pump with underfloor heating requires very good thermal insulation to be economical. This will be very difficult in a house from the 1950s. If you want to upgrade the house to a modern insulation standard with underfloor heating, you will probably be better off building new soon… It simply won’t be cost-effective!
Best regards,
Andreas
N
Neckarweg5 Jan 2016 19:06Thank you very much for the answers!
It’s just a pity that no one can make the decision for me.
Underfloor heating is out of the question because there are very well-maintained, beautiful parquet floors that must not be disturbed. What is definitely possible is converting to wood pellets.
My dream, however, would be a heat pump with wall-mounted radiators combined with the existing tiled stoves (wood) and possibly photovoltaic panels to balance the electricity usage somewhat.
Is that unrealistic?
It’s just a pity that no one can make the decision for me.
Underfloor heating is out of the question because there are very well-maintained, beautiful parquet floors that must not be disturbed. What is definitely possible is converting to wood pellets.
My dream, however, would be a heat pump with wall-mounted radiators combined with the existing tiled stoves (wood) and possibly photovoltaic panels to balance the electricity usage somewhat.
Is that unrealistic?
Hi,
Short answer: Yes, it’s unrealistic. A heat pump only works efficiently with the lowest possible supply temperatures. For underfloor heating, that’s around 30-35°C (86-95°F). Wall-mounted radiators require higher temperatures, usually starting at 45°C (113°F) and above. At those temperatures, the heat pump becomes very inefficient.
You would need special low-temperature radiators, but these are expensive, bulky, and unattractive.
Photovoltaic panels won’t really help with your heat pump initially. You need your heat pump mostly at night during winter, when there is no solar power. Also, the voltage and power requirements don’t match well. Someone recently asked about this here; I don’t recall the exact answer, but it was something like “photovoltaic/storage systems supply 240 volts, 2-phase, whereas heat pumps require 400 volts, 3-phase” or something similar.
Best regards,
Andreas
Neckarweg schrieb:
Thank you for the replies!
My dream would be a heat pump with wall-mounted radiators combined with the existing tiled stoves (wood) and possibly photovoltaic panels to balance out the electricity usage a bit.
Is that unrealistic?
Short answer: Yes, it’s unrealistic. A heat pump only works efficiently with the lowest possible supply temperatures. For underfloor heating, that’s around 30-35°C (86-95°F). Wall-mounted radiators require higher temperatures, usually starting at 45°C (113°F) and above. At those temperatures, the heat pump becomes very inefficient.
You would need special low-temperature radiators, but these are expensive, bulky, and unattractive.
Photovoltaic panels won’t really help with your heat pump initially. You need your heat pump mostly at night during winter, when there is no solar power. Also, the voltage and power requirements don’t match well. Someone recently asked about this here; I don’t recall the exact answer, but it was something like “photovoltaic/storage systems supply 240 volts, 2-phase, whereas heat pumps require 400 volts, 3-phase” or something similar.
Best regards,
Andreas
Hello again
Have you checked once more? Scratched the pipe with a knife or saw blade?
I find it hard to imagine a retrofitted heating installation under plaster from 1977 using steel pipes.
Even if steel was the material used, it probably wouldn’t have the dimensions of a gravity heating system; those pipes last a very long time and can still be used.
If there are still old valves, including thermostatic valves, installed, you should replace them with presettable ones.
Olli
Have you checked once more? Scratched the pipe with a knife or saw blade?
I find it hard to imagine a retrofitted heating installation under plaster from 1977 using steel pipes.
Even if steel was the material used, it probably wouldn’t have the dimensions of a gravity heating system; those pipes last a very long time and can still be used.
If there are still old valves, including thermostatic valves, installed, you should replace them with presettable ones.
Olli
N
Neckarweg6 Jan 2016 18:53Hello Olli,
I was informed that it is steel piping. I think I will take the risk and leave it in place. Mainly because the walls containing the heating pipes largely do not need to be opened for the new electrical wiring. Also, because the schedule suggests this approach.
A small apartment in the house will still be occupied for another 6 months (half a year). During that time, new electrical wiring can already be installed in the rest of the house – this would at most cause some noise disturbance for the residents. If I were to replace the heating pipes, I would have a problem with the residents.
Thank you very much for your help!
I was informed that it is steel piping. I think I will take the risk and leave it in place. Mainly because the walls containing the heating pipes largely do not need to be opened for the new electrical wiring. Also, because the schedule suggests this approach.
A small apartment in the house will still be occupied for another 6 months (half a year). During that time, new electrical wiring can already be installed in the rest of the house – this would at most cause some noise disturbance for the residents. If I were to replace the heating pipes, I would have a problem with the residents.
Thank you very much for your help!
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