ᐅ What to replace an oil heating system from 1989 in an old, characterful house with?
Created on: 9 Jan 2021 14:19
M
meowmeow
Hello dear forum,
we have an old timber-framed house in the Alpine foreland. Built around 1910 with an extension from the 1960s, the original building has a basement, the extension does not. The insulation is rather poor, and the windows are either double-glazed or old. A hailstorm completely destroyed our roof, so a new roof with good insulation has now been installed.
Currently, we have a Viessmann oil heating system from 1989 with a 2000l (528 gallons) oil tank in the basement, which has caused no major problems so far. The hot water is also centrally supplied by this system. With the old roof, we used about 1900-2500l (502-660 gallons) of oil in winter, depending on the season. With the new roof, we don’t have experience yet, but I expect some improvement. The house has about 115m2 (1238 square feet) of living space, heated by radiators.
Since the heating system is getting old and there are currently larger subsidy programs, we are considering modernization. From my research so far, a heat pump seems to be out of the question because we would need a better-insulated house and underfloor heating? Other types of electric heating seem even less economical?
The least invasive option would probably be a new condensing oil boiler, but these are not subsidized, so I could just wait until the old one breaks down?
A pellet heating system seems too complicated to operate? My mother will soon be 70 and often lives alone in the house. In her old age, I don’t want to put too much strain on her. We frequently visit with our child for several days, but mostly in summer. Also, the long transition phase with low heating loads appears to speak against a pellet system.
I can’t really estimate the costs for gas. A gas connection might be possible with the local supplier if the neighbors join in. We would need about 60-70m (197-230 feet) of gas pipeline on our own property. What costs should I roughly expect? Alternatively, a tank could be buried in the garden, but we are not very enthusiastic about that idea. We are somewhat confused by current politics: on the one hand, fossil fuels are supposed to become much more expensive to promote renewable energy, but on the other hand, gas condensing boilers are heavily subsidized?
For sentimental reasons, we could imagine installing a water-bearing wood stove in the living room. We already have a wood-burning stove in the kitchen where we occasionally cook, and which also provides some heating in winter.
However, it would have to connect to the same chimney currently used by the oil heating system – or the future gas heating system – and from what I understand, this is not allowed, so I might have to give up that dream, right?
We are considering a photovoltaic system on the roof, but we plan to remove the attic floor and renovate the upstairs room within about 5-10 years to get higher ceilings. This would also include adding a few skylights. I should probably wait for these renovation measures first.
What would you recommend? How should the new heating system be sized – I assume this can be calculated quite well based on previous energy consumption?
Thank you very much for your time and help!
we have an old timber-framed house in the Alpine foreland. Built around 1910 with an extension from the 1960s, the original building has a basement, the extension does not. The insulation is rather poor, and the windows are either double-glazed or old. A hailstorm completely destroyed our roof, so a new roof with good insulation has now been installed.
Currently, we have a Viessmann oil heating system from 1989 with a 2000l (528 gallons) oil tank in the basement, which has caused no major problems so far. The hot water is also centrally supplied by this system. With the old roof, we used about 1900-2500l (502-660 gallons) of oil in winter, depending on the season. With the new roof, we don’t have experience yet, but I expect some improvement. The house has about 115m2 (1238 square feet) of living space, heated by radiators.
Since the heating system is getting old and there are currently larger subsidy programs, we are considering modernization. From my research so far, a heat pump seems to be out of the question because we would need a better-insulated house and underfloor heating? Other types of electric heating seem even less economical?
The least invasive option would probably be a new condensing oil boiler, but these are not subsidized, so I could just wait until the old one breaks down?
A pellet heating system seems too complicated to operate? My mother will soon be 70 and often lives alone in the house. In her old age, I don’t want to put too much strain on her. We frequently visit with our child for several days, but mostly in summer. Also, the long transition phase with low heating loads appears to speak against a pellet system.
I can’t really estimate the costs for gas. A gas connection might be possible with the local supplier if the neighbors join in. We would need about 60-70m (197-230 feet) of gas pipeline on our own property. What costs should I roughly expect? Alternatively, a tank could be buried in the garden, but we are not very enthusiastic about that idea. We are somewhat confused by current politics: on the one hand, fossil fuels are supposed to become much more expensive to promote renewable energy, but on the other hand, gas condensing boilers are heavily subsidized?
For sentimental reasons, we could imagine installing a water-bearing wood stove in the living room. We already have a wood-burning stove in the kitchen where we occasionally cook, and which also provides some heating in winter.
However, it would have to connect to the same chimney currently used by the oil heating system – or the future gas heating system – and from what I understand, this is not allowed, so I might have to give up that dream, right?
We are considering a photovoltaic system on the roof, but we plan to remove the attic floor and renovate the upstairs room within about 5-10 years to get higher ceilings. This would also include adding a few skylights. I should probably wait for these renovation measures first.
What would you recommend? How should the new heating system be sized – I assume this can be calculated quite well based on previous energy consumption?
Thank you very much for your time and help!
P
pagoni20209 Jan 2021 17:30meowmeow schrieb:
I’m currently reading up on water-source heat pumps. That would free up the chimney used for the wood stove in the living room.
We have a stream running through our property, about 20–30m (65–100 feet) from the house. So, I assume you wouldn't have to drill too deep to reach the groundwater. I think the stream doesn’t carry enough water to extract heat directly from it, or the distance is too great. Next to the house, there is an approximately 2 x 2.5m (6.5 x 8 feet) waterfall on public land where the municipality now wants to install a fish ladder. Just to make sure you’re not confusing terms: You probably mean a heat pump that extracts energy from groundwater, right? That is completely different from a domestic hot water heat pump, which gets its energy from indoor air. You’ll need to carefully check the regulations for using groundwater and tapping into the stream. There are strict rules regarding such usage.
I think you need to clarify the basics first and decide what exactly you want to renovate or upgrade. In any case, there are several options available.
Yes, by water heat pump I meant a heat pump that extracts energy from groundwater. Indeed, water rights regarding streams are a complex matter. However, I think it would be more interesting to use groundwater anyway.
In principle, I am very in favor of heat pumps. With the hopefully saved maintenance costs from the oil heating system, I could probably supplement heating electrically in case of illness or laziness, and the chimneys would be free for a hydronic fireplace in the living room. This fireplace would be located directly above the current heater, so fresh air supply for the stove could be relatively easily ensured through the basement, and I assume it would not be too difficult to connect it to the existing piping system.
In principle, I am very in favor of heat pumps. With the hopefully saved maintenance costs from the oil heating system, I could probably supplement heating electrically in case of illness or laziness, and the chimneys would be free for a hydronic fireplace in the living room. This fireplace would be located directly above the current heater, so fresh air supply for the stove could be relatively easily ensured through the basement, and I assume it would not be too difficult to connect it to the existing piping system.
P
pagoni20209 Jan 2021 17:48Wolkensieben schrieb:
What do you think about this? Oh dear.... 😀 there are a thousand opinions, and most of them have their reasons. Nowadays, air-to-water heat pumps combined with underfloor heating are typically installed; if you choose otherwise, there are fewer supporters because everyone usually swears by their own system. But that has always been the case and shouldn’t be the sole factor in your decision.
So, unless you are planning a major renovation anyway, I would seriously consider replacing the entire heating system. You can read all the discussions about CO2 and the like over and over, but that won’t necessarily make you any wiser about your own situation. If grandma manages fine with her current setup, I’d leave it as is or possibly install a nice wood stove and, if needed, add targeted infrared heating – there are great options available for that. I would especially base the decision on what grandma wants. Maybe she definitely doesn’t want wood and is looking forward to a modern heating system. You probably can’t retrofit a water-based underfloor heating system easily, although personally, I’m not a big fan of those anyway.
So… it remains a personal matter and depends, in my opinion, on grandma’s preferences. Maybe she doesn’t want such an extensive renovation at all, and in that case, I would leave things as they are and just add something selectively (wood stove + infrared modules).
meowmeow schrieb:
Yes, water rights at the creek are a complex issue. I think using groundwater would be more interesting anyway. You probably aren’t allowed to use water from the creek. Whether you can drill a well is something you can usually clarify by phone with the local water authority. This has nothing to do with the surface water of the creek itself.
meowmeow schrieb:
With the hopefully saved maintenance costs of the oil heating system, I could probably use electric heating if I’m ill or feeling lazy. Then take a look here about heat pumps, their problems, and costs… old-school systems (gas and oil) in my opinion are still generally much easier to maintain and at least cheaper since any heating technician can repair them. With your intention, the wish is probably father to the thought. 😀
Wolkensieben9 Jan 2021 18:05pagoni2020 schrieb:
It is and remains a personal matter and, in my opinion, depends on grandma’s preferences. Thank you very much for the information.
Who provides good and appropriate advice in this case? Are they energy consultants with special qualifications?
The topic is so complex, overwhelming, and confusing that, as someone who has no knowledge, I find it hard to understand.
The issue is that no full renovation is planned, only new windows and insulation for the upper floor ceiling. But no new wiring or underfloor heating yet, so everything can remain as it is. Also, there will be no full thermal insulation system.
It should simply be comfortable, which is why the switch was made to storage heaters back then, and the stoves were removed.
However, she would like the kitchen stove because of the water basin, for making plum jam and so on.
That also brings back childhood memories.
The infrared heating sounds good; we had already considered it and will continue to look into it.
P
pagoni20209 Jan 2021 18:20Wolkensieben schrieb:
Who can provide good and appropriate advice? Are these energy consultants with special qualifications?
The topic is so complex, overwhelming, and confusing that, as someone without any knowledge, I just can’t grasp it. You’re right. We now live in Saxony, and I found it very difficult here to find an energy consultant who didn’t just give standard statements. Eventually, we hired an energy consultant based in southern Germany; he costs a bit more than the cheapest options, but he was worth it! Here, people just shrugged or even dismissed things regarding compliance with the Energy Saving Ordinance, and now we’re building to the same basic technical standards but achieving KfW40 Plus. I got the impression that only generic solutions are preferred, those quickly calculated and done.
I had good experiences with the consumer advice center here. Even on the phone, their help was really useful, and they offer a free initial consultation with a qualified energy consultant.
It’s best if you create a separate thread with your project and questions and see what information you can gather there; otherwise, this thread from @meowmeow will get too crowded.
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