ᐅ What to replace an oil heating system from 1989 in an old, characterful house with?
Created on: 9 Jan 2021 14:19
M
meowmeow
Hello dear forum,
we have an old timber-framed house in the Alpine foreland. Built around 1910 with an extension from the 1960s, the original building has a basement, the extension does not. The insulation is rather poor, and the windows are either double-glazed or old. A hailstorm completely destroyed our roof, so a new roof with good insulation has now been installed.
Currently, we have a Viessmann oil heating system from 1989 with a 2000l (528 gallons) oil tank in the basement, which has caused no major problems so far. The hot water is also centrally supplied by this system. With the old roof, we used about 1900-2500l (502-660 gallons) of oil in winter, depending on the season. With the new roof, we don’t have experience yet, but I expect some improvement. The house has about 115m2 (1238 square feet) of living space, heated by radiators.
Since the heating system is getting old and there are currently larger subsidy programs, we are considering modernization. From my research so far, a heat pump seems to be out of the question because we would need a better-insulated house and underfloor heating? Other types of electric heating seem even less economical?
The least invasive option would probably be a new condensing oil boiler, but these are not subsidized, so I could just wait until the old one breaks down?
A pellet heating system seems too complicated to operate? My mother will soon be 70 and often lives alone in the house. In her old age, I don’t want to put too much strain on her. We frequently visit with our child for several days, but mostly in summer. Also, the long transition phase with low heating loads appears to speak against a pellet system.
I can’t really estimate the costs for gas. A gas connection might be possible with the local supplier if the neighbors join in. We would need about 60-70m (197-230 feet) of gas pipeline on our own property. What costs should I roughly expect? Alternatively, a tank could be buried in the garden, but we are not very enthusiastic about that idea. We are somewhat confused by current politics: on the one hand, fossil fuels are supposed to become much more expensive to promote renewable energy, but on the other hand, gas condensing boilers are heavily subsidized?
For sentimental reasons, we could imagine installing a water-bearing wood stove in the living room. We already have a wood-burning stove in the kitchen where we occasionally cook, and which also provides some heating in winter.
However, it would have to connect to the same chimney currently used by the oil heating system – or the future gas heating system – and from what I understand, this is not allowed, so I might have to give up that dream, right?
We are considering a photovoltaic system on the roof, but we plan to remove the attic floor and renovate the upstairs room within about 5-10 years to get higher ceilings. This would also include adding a few skylights. I should probably wait for these renovation measures first.
What would you recommend? How should the new heating system be sized – I assume this can be calculated quite well based on previous energy consumption?
Thank you very much for your time and help!
we have an old timber-framed house in the Alpine foreland. Built around 1910 with an extension from the 1960s, the original building has a basement, the extension does not. The insulation is rather poor, and the windows are either double-glazed or old. A hailstorm completely destroyed our roof, so a new roof with good insulation has now been installed.
Currently, we have a Viessmann oil heating system from 1989 with a 2000l (528 gallons) oil tank in the basement, which has caused no major problems so far. The hot water is also centrally supplied by this system. With the old roof, we used about 1900-2500l (502-660 gallons) of oil in winter, depending on the season. With the new roof, we don’t have experience yet, but I expect some improvement. The house has about 115m2 (1238 square feet) of living space, heated by radiators.
Since the heating system is getting old and there are currently larger subsidy programs, we are considering modernization. From my research so far, a heat pump seems to be out of the question because we would need a better-insulated house and underfloor heating? Other types of electric heating seem even less economical?
The least invasive option would probably be a new condensing oil boiler, but these are not subsidized, so I could just wait until the old one breaks down?
A pellet heating system seems too complicated to operate? My mother will soon be 70 and often lives alone in the house. In her old age, I don’t want to put too much strain on her. We frequently visit with our child for several days, but mostly in summer. Also, the long transition phase with low heating loads appears to speak against a pellet system.
I can’t really estimate the costs for gas. A gas connection might be possible with the local supplier if the neighbors join in. We would need about 60-70m (197-230 feet) of gas pipeline on our own property. What costs should I roughly expect? Alternatively, a tank could be buried in the garden, but we are not very enthusiastic about that idea. We are somewhat confused by current politics: on the one hand, fossil fuels are supposed to become much more expensive to promote renewable energy, but on the other hand, gas condensing boilers are heavily subsidized?
For sentimental reasons, we could imagine installing a water-bearing wood stove in the living room. We already have a wood-burning stove in the kitchen where we occasionally cook, and which also provides some heating in winter.
However, it would have to connect to the same chimney currently used by the oil heating system – or the future gas heating system – and from what I understand, this is not allowed, so I might have to give up that dream, right?
We are considering a photovoltaic system on the roof, but we plan to remove the attic floor and renovate the upstairs room within about 5-10 years to get higher ceilings. This would also include adding a few skylights. I should probably wait for these renovation measures first.
What would you recommend? How should the new heating system be sized – I assume this can be calculated quite well based on previous energy consumption?
Thank you very much for your time and help!
Wolkensieben9 Jan 2021 15:24I only know what I heard from the neighborhood. That using the space as a living area was prohibited, but I don’t know any details. It’s also unclear how the building authority found out about it.
By now, I’m a fan of asking in advance to avoid trouble later on.
Regarding comfort: that’s true, but you never know if it will stay that way. However, 70 is not that old yet. Life is just beginning then. (At least that’s the impression I get when I look at my mother). You could also use the great stoves only when visiting.
By now, I’m a fan of asking in advance to avoid trouble later on.
Regarding comfort: that’s true, but you never know if it will stay that way. However, 70 is not that old yet. Life is just beginning then. (At least that’s the impression I get when I look at my mother). You could also use the great stoves only when visiting.
Hmm, in our case, it is already considered living space; there is just an attic above it that I am thinking of removing to raise the ceiling height. A building permit / planning permission would probably not be required in our situation, as the use is not changing and the exterior appearance of the house will not be significantly altered.
P
pagoni20209 Jan 2021 17:05meowmeow schrieb:
"Especially older people probably prefer it simple and functional."
My mother still enjoys working with wood. Not just for heating, but also chainsawing and chopping, and we already have a wood stove in the kitchen, but you can’t always rely on that staying the same. Yep, and depending on the need/size, there is also compressed wood available for purchase. You really have to base it on individual requirements.
Wolkensieben schrieb:
We also planned to install a new type of heating system in grandma’s house because she heats with storage heaters, which is very expensive.
On the other hand, if you compare the cost of a new heating system of any kind, it might not be worth it. It probably won’t “pay off” within 30 years, just like you said. One deciding factor can always be not only functionality but also the heating habits of a person or the preferences of the residents. Maybe someone doesn’t want to miss having a nice wood-burning stove, or someone is glad to get rid of it—both are possible.
There are people in modern houses who use much more energy than some elderly people in their 1970s buildings. In such cases, the saying goes: “Saving at all costs!”
Wolkensieben schrieb:
Long ago, individual oil stoves were used to heat every room, with small oil cans. Ah yes… my youth… with the sulfur strip… and woe to you if there was too much oil in it… wufffff
Wolkensieben schrieb:
Regarding hauling wood: I wonder how the old farmers managed to survive. If an older person can’t handle that anymore, there are usually other difficulties as well. You can store some wood upstairs, at least a sufficient amount, and modern wood stoves need considerably less wood than 25 years ago while offering higher efficiency. So, in our new build, we will have a nice wood stove, and I already know it will be going more or less constantly in winter. I don’t calculate that just by cost but also by the joy I get from a fire like that. The stove also has good heat storage capacity.
Wolkensieben schrieb:
Our idea was to install a photovoltaic system on the roof with a battery in the basement, and use that to power new infrared heaters and the water heater. That’s exactly what we are implementing in our KfW40Plus new build, using a heat pump for domestic hot water. We have found an excellent energy consultant for this. Depending on the situation, electric instantaneous water heaters can also make sense, but as always, that depends on individual needs and circumstances. Once you look into it seriously, you suddenly discover things you didn’t know before. There are now reputable architects and institutions here that implement and recommend this approach as well. We are definitely going to do it that way.
I am currently reading about water-source heat pumps. This would free up the chimney used for the wood-burning stove in the living room.
We have a stream running through our property, about 20-30m (65-100 feet) from the house. Therefore, I assume that drilling for groundwater wouldn’t have to be very deep. I think the stream doesn’t carry enough water to extract heat directly from it, or the distance is too great. Next to the house, there is a waterfall on public land measuring about 2 by 2.5m (6.5 by 8 feet), where the municipality now plans to install a fish ladder.
We have a stream running through our property, about 20-30m (65-100 feet) from the house. Therefore, I assume that drilling for groundwater wouldn’t have to be very deep. I think the stream doesn’t carry enough water to extract heat directly from it, or the distance is too great. Next to the house, there is a waterfall on public land measuring about 2 by 2.5m (6.5 by 8 feet), where the municipality now plans to install a fish ladder.
Wolkensieben9 Jan 2021 17:22pagoni2020 schrieb:
Depending on the situation, electric tankless water heaters can also make sense, but as always, it depends on the individual needs and circumstances. That sounds really good. You have a new build and got good advice.
I am also very glad that in our house, the wiring and fuses were already planned for a photovoltaic system. Unfortunately, our roof is really small, so it’s not worth it yet. Plus, we want to pay off the mortgage first.
If at some point there is a major shakeup regarding fossil fuels and CO2 taxation, we will upgrade too. Until then, I assume the concept is sound and feasible for terraced house roofs.
Right now, a wood-burning stove is not necessary; I would like to have one, but it’s so warm inside that we would only use it during transitional seasons. But the topic is not forgotten.
Unfortunately, we are also not yet far along with Grandma’s house planning. It’s still quite confusing.
There is a gas connection available at the street, and it would cost 2,000 euros (about 2,000 US dollars) to bring it to the house.
We are also considering simply installing standard radiators and a gas heating system.
Someone will surely take over the house later and enjoy the kitchen stove and wood-burning stove, preferably one that stores heat in the evening and releases it in the morning.
What do you think about that? I’m uncertain because of the CO2 tax that is being talked about.
We saw a house in France that had a combined gas-wood heating system. That sounded interesting as well.
P.S. A long time ago, I rented a house with a briquette stove, which was also quite an experience.
Wolkensieben9 Jan 2021 17:23meowmeow schrieb:
We have a stream running through our property, about 20–30 m (65–98 feet) away from the house. Because of this, I assume it wouldn’t be necessary to drill very deep to reach the groundwater. I think the stream doesn’t carry enough water to extract heat directly from it, or the distance is too great. Next to the house, there is a roughly 2 by 2.5 m (6.5 by 8 feet) waterfall on public land, where the local authority now plans to install a fish ladder. That sounds very beautiful, like a holiday paradise.
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