ᐅ Underfloor heating in the children's room? Some rooms planned without underfloor heating? Removing the air-to-water heat pump?
Created on: 18 Dec 2019 21:20
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ludwig88sta
Hello everyone,
I'll briefly introduce the topic:
We are planning a two-story single-family house of about 180 sqm (1,940 sq ft) with a basement, built with Poroton 42cm (16.5 inches) bricks and as much photovoltaic system as possible on the roof. Since we want to insulate well not only with the bricks but also with the windows, the base slab, the basement, etc., we are considering an air-to-water heat pump (following the motto "a well-insulated house doesn’t need a huge heating system").
Now we are wondering whether we should install underfloor heating in the bedroom or children’s rooms at all, because it is said to be slow to react and can cause uncomfortable temperatures in summer, which again leads to poor sleep. Also, different temperatures are needed in sleeping areas than in living areas. Of course, children’s rooms are tricky since they are used for both activities in the afternoon and for sleeping at night.
We want to install underfloor heating in the kitchen/dining area, living room, and of course the bathroom. Can you plan for two different supply temperatures for the underfloor heating (one warmer for kitchen/dining, living room, bathroom, study and one cooler for bedrooms and kids’ rooms)? What about rooms like the hobby room or guest room? My wife often makes wreaths or works on crafts in the hobby room, so it definitely does not need to be as warm as the living room. The guest room we would not want to heat throughout the entire heating season, but only when guests are actually staying.
However, I read that underfloor heating works best when water is circulated continuously? What is recommended for guest rooms or hobby rooms? The quickest way to heat them would probably be with conventional radiators rather than underfloor heating? But what I have read so far suggests that air-to-water heat pumps may not be ideal for that. Should we consider a gas boiler instead (connection available on the property)? Or is it possible to operate underfloor heating with an air-to-water heat pump with different supply temperature circuits (1) living areas 2) sleeping areas 3) rooms heated only as needed)?
This sentence made me doubt:
I understand this to mean that the whole house should be heated with one supply temperature, ideally all through underfloor heating. Of course, with multiple circuits since each circuit should not exceed 80/100 meters (260/330 feet) in length (pressure loss, etc.). But all with the same supply temperature, otherwise that would be individual room control again, which should not be installed.
I hope you can shed some light on this.
Underfloor heating is very important to my wife, so we won’t avoid it. The question is what we do with the hobby room, which needs much less heating (or also the bedrooms and kids’ rooms?), and the guest room, which is heated much less often. Is that even possible with underfloor heating and an air-to-water heat pump?
Have a great evening and enjoy the upcoming pre-Christmas season.
I’m really impressed by the many helpful people here who support future homeowners like me, who don’t just go to a general contractor and say “Do it and give me the keys sometime, I don’t care about the details,” but who want to dive into all the different trades involved. At the same time, it can be overwhelming and confusing due to the huge amount of information available online, especially with little prior experience.
I'll briefly introduce the topic:
We are planning a two-story single-family house of about 180 sqm (1,940 sq ft) with a basement, built with Poroton 42cm (16.5 inches) bricks and as much photovoltaic system as possible on the roof. Since we want to insulate well not only with the bricks but also with the windows, the base slab, the basement, etc., we are considering an air-to-water heat pump (following the motto "a well-insulated house doesn’t need a huge heating system").
Now we are wondering whether we should install underfloor heating in the bedroom or children’s rooms at all, because it is said to be slow to react and can cause uncomfortable temperatures in summer, which again leads to poor sleep. Also, different temperatures are needed in sleeping areas than in living areas. Of course, children’s rooms are tricky since they are used for both activities in the afternoon and for sleeping at night.
We want to install underfloor heating in the kitchen/dining area, living room, and of course the bathroom. Can you plan for two different supply temperatures for the underfloor heating (one warmer for kitchen/dining, living room, bathroom, study and one cooler for bedrooms and kids’ rooms)? What about rooms like the hobby room or guest room? My wife often makes wreaths or works on crafts in the hobby room, so it definitely does not need to be as warm as the living room. The guest room we would not want to heat throughout the entire heating season, but only when guests are actually staying.
However, I read that underfloor heating works best when water is circulated continuously? What is recommended for guest rooms or hobby rooms? The quickest way to heat them would probably be with conventional radiators rather than underfloor heating? But what I have read so far suggests that air-to-water heat pumps may not be ideal for that. Should we consider a gas boiler instead (connection available on the property)? Or is it possible to operate underfloor heating with an air-to-water heat pump with different supply temperature circuits (1) living areas 2) sleeping areas 3) rooms heated only as needed)?
This sentence made me doubt:
"To ensure optimal operation of the heat pump, underfloor heating should not have individual room control installed."(Source: Bundesverband Flächenheizung e.V.)
I understand this to mean that the whole house should be heated with one supply temperature, ideally all through underfloor heating. Of course, with multiple circuits since each circuit should not exceed 80/100 meters (260/330 feet) in length (pressure loss, etc.). But all with the same supply temperature, otherwise that would be individual room control again, which should not be installed.
I hope you can shed some light on this.
Underfloor heating is very important to my wife, so we won’t avoid it. The question is what we do with the hobby room, which needs much less heating (or also the bedrooms and kids’ rooms?), and the guest room, which is heated much less often. Is that even possible with underfloor heating and an air-to-water heat pump?
Have a great evening and enjoy the upcoming pre-Christmas season.
I’m really impressed by the many helpful people here who support future homeowners like me, who don’t just go to a general contractor and say “Do it and give me the keys sometime, I don’t care about the details,” but who want to dive into all the different trades involved. At the same time, it can be overwhelming and confusing due to the huge amount of information available online, especially with little prior experience.
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boxandroof20 Dec 2019 12:57That can be done. It should not get too cold there, and ventilation must be possible. It is also possible to add some insulation to an interior wall of the bathroom or bedroom if needed to meet the requirements.
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ludwig88sta20 Dec 2019 13:25Yes, I would plan for a light well and/or mechanical ventilation with heat recovery in every basement room anyway.
For the bathroom, you would probably insulate to keep the heat inside, but for the bedroom, on the other hand, you would rather aim to keep the heat outside?
For the bathroom, you would probably insulate to keep the heat inside, but for the bedroom, on the other hand, you would rather aim to keep the heat outside?
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boxandroof20 Dec 2019 13:29That’s the theory, but whether it is really necessary can be determined through the heating load calculation. In any case, it would be relatively uncommon, though that doesn’t necessarily mean anything.
michert schrieb:
There is probably an option for an exemption. I can't tell you how the formal process works. Or you install them and leave them powered off and open.I also tried to get an exemption, but had no chance, even though I had a letter from a TÜV expert who addressed the ERR issue, self-regulation effect, etc. It was unsuccessful and considered too general by the building authority. They almost demanded a kind of expert report specifically based on the construction project. So I withdrew my exemption request because it would have cost money otherwise. In the HTD, however, there are several cases where exemptions were simply granted. It seems to depend heavily on the federal state. For me, in Baden-Württemberg, it was not possible.In the end, I did not install ERR devices, but prepared for them. If an inspection, which might happen, occurs, I would have to retrofit them.
I am satisfied without ERR.
There are exceptions where ERR can officially be waived at least in the control room. Unfortunately, you are not allowed to post links. Search for the following terms:
"Interpretation XIX-11 of § 14 paragraphs 1 and 2 of the Energy Saving Ordinance 2013 (automatic control devices for central heating systems)"
on the bbsr-energieeinsparung website. Check point 4.)
ludwig88sta schrieb:
Would it be a bad idea to insulate this single room "pantry/wine cellar" on the inside with XPS or EPS against the "heat" from the surrounding rooms and completely exclude it from the underfloor heating? Why?A room alone doesn’t become warm or cold just because of insulation. Insulation only slows down the process of warming up but doesn’t prevent it. Without active cooling, equilibrium with the surrounding environment will inevitably be reached sooner rather than later.
Buy a wine cooler and/or a chest freezer.
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ludwig88sta20 Dec 2019 16:25Thanks @World-e
@Dr Hix it obviously depends on the area of the exterior wall in contact with the ground (because of the basement) and its temperature, right?
In theory, you could also leave out this corner where the pantry is planned from the external wall insulation and just insulate the room as a box within the building envelope by insulating all the interior walls and the ceiling of the pantry!?
@Dr Hix it obviously depends on the area of the exterior wall in contact with the ground (because of the basement) and its temperature, right?
In theory, you could also leave out this corner where the pantry is planned from the external wall insulation and just insulate the room as a box within the building envelope by insulating all the interior walls and the ceiling of the pantry!?
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