ᐅ Underfloor heating and mechanical ventilation with heat recovery, replacement of standard radiators

This information is very important to me! Thank you.

So, as suspected, the heating systems offered in brochures are generally poorly sized.
I plan to visit a technical university exhibition over the weekend to ask some targeted questions.
However, whether the salesperson can provide accurate answers regarding the heating system is another matter.

So your recommendation for me is to have the entire heating system plus the controlled residential ventilation with heat recovery excluded upfront from any potential offer?

phobos schrieb:
....I wanted to visit a university of applied sciences exhibition over the weekend and ask some specific questions. But whether the sales representative can give me accurate answers on questions like the heating system is another matter.

Definitely. Make sure to note down the answers!

phobos schrieb:
...So your recommendation for me would be to have the entire heating system plus the mechanical ventilation with heat recovery removed from an initial offer right away?

That would be my recommendation! Scaling back is usually more expensive than adding on with a general contractor. You should give a local general contractor a real chance. It usually makes sense to require a fully enclosed shell. Exclude the mechanical, electrical, and plumbing (MEP) trades. You can involve the local contractor again for the interior work (plaster, screed, interior doors, electrical installation, etc.). It’s not unwise to hold this possibility in mind during price negotiations. Overall, this approach is somewhat more demanding for the homeowner compared to signing an all-inclusive contract, but it will certainly be far more efficient in the long run (operating costs).

€uro schrieb:
Additional ventilation heat recovery areas or other energy sources are often necessary in bathrooms.

In the bathroom, I think a radiator for the towels makes sense. What about other energy sources? What options are possible?

€uro schrieb:
Removing equipment is usually more expensive than adding it with general contractors

Did I understand you correctly?
Does that mean if I request a detached house with heating included, and then remove the heating, I end up paying more overall than if I had requested a quote without heating from the start?

phobos schrieb:
In the bathroom, I think a radiator for the towels makes sense. What about other energy sources? What options are possible?

Bathroom radiators cannot deliver the planned heating output at all when covered with towels. My comment referred to a heat pump as the heat source. Bathrooms usually have the highest specific heating demand (high room temperature, small area). In these cases, the available surface area (underfloor heating) is often not sufficient if “heat pump-friendly” flow temperatures are to be maintained. Additional radiators or, for example, infrared heaters are often necessary.

phobos schrieb:
…does this mean that if I request a single-family house with heating included, and then remove the heating, I will end up paying more overall than if I had asked for a quote without heating from the start?

More or less. A better way to put it: the credits for removing services are so low that you cannot buy them on the open market with those savings. There are two reasons for this:
1. The initial pricing by the builder is based on 100% acceptance of services, so the calculation becomes unstable.
2. This also serves to encourage customers to opt for 100% acceptance of the services offered.
The further your own ideas deviate from the standard offer, the less favorable the conditions become. Therefore, it is usually easier to upgrade a finished shell than to scale down a complete package.

Best regards.

Hello €uro,

€uro schrieb:
Something like that. A better wording would be: The reimbursements for the omission of services are so low that you couldn’t buy these services on the open market with that amount. There are two reasons for this:
1. The provider’s original calculation is thrown off because it was based on 100% acceptance of services.
2. The aim is to “persuade” the customer to accept 100% of the services.
The further your own expectations deviate from the standard offer, the less favorable it gets. Therefore, it is more common to upgrade a sealed shell build than to downgrade a complete package.

At this point, you are not exactly helpful. This topic is recurring, both here in the forum and in my daily work as a construction consultant.

Every contract involves "2," spelled out "two." To be precise, one who "does" and one who "allows." It is not exclusively the "bad" general contractor who sets the rules you criticize; it is rather a specific type of homeowner (greeting the “penny pincher is cool” attitude) who practically demands them; many providers live from this – the so-called budget suppliers, as you and I gladly call them. If a certain type of homeowner expects a luxury car at the price of a cheap import, researches the purchase of a refrigerator more thoroughly, and all the explanations and warnings have no effect – they must not be surprised afterwards! Even low-cost providers keep proper accounting; debits and credits have to at least balance out at the end of the year…

For several months now, I have also been preparing assessments of construction documents. With regular recurrence, I point out statements in the building description along the lines of: "If services are removed from the scope of delivery after contract signing, the signatory already agrees without objection to the repurchase/credit amount." If, despite urgent warning from the homeowners, nothing is changed in the contract wording, and negotiations – and I don’t need a crystal ball to know why – are avoided, who is then to blame? Or is it perhaps a business based on mutual consent?

By the way – the realistically calculating portion of homeowners is very rarely found to have negative experiences in forums or the media.

Kind regards

Bauexperte schrieb:
.... It is not exclusively the problematic liability insurance that establishes the rules you criticized,...

I have not criticized anything, but merely stated facts without making any judgment. So there is no trace of blaming liability insurance here, as these are economic necessities.

Bauexperte schrieb:
.... people research more before buying a refrigerator, and all efforts to inform/warn fail – they must not be surprised afterwards!

I fully agree with that.

Best regards.