Hello everyone,
We recently came across Tibber and are considering whether it might be suitable for us and economically viable. Does anyone here use it? Specifically, we’re interested in the hourly, dynamic billing and this Pulse device that you need to buy for it. Is it some kind of submeter? They throw around terms like “smart home,” but I haven’t fully understood it yet.
Can the Pulse device be installed by yourself, or does it require a certified electrician? The idea seems to be that it measures electricity consumption in real time.
We have photovoltaic panels, an electric car, and a fairly large battery storage system, so we would presumably be well equipped for this. However, I’m not sure if with our setup we can specifically control if and when power is drawn from the grid. Depending on the price (which can sometimes even be negative), it might make sense to feed everything from the photovoltaic system into the grid and power the household from the grid when the price (like yesterday) was as low as -40ct.
If anyone has any experience with this, good or bad, please feel free to share.
We recently came across Tibber and are considering whether it might be suitable for us and economically viable. Does anyone here use it? Specifically, we’re interested in the hourly, dynamic billing and this Pulse device that you need to buy for it. Is it some kind of submeter? They throw around terms like “smart home,” but I haven’t fully understood it yet.
Can the Pulse device be installed by yourself, or does it require a certified electrician? The idea seems to be that it measures electricity consumption in real time.
We have photovoltaic panels, an electric car, and a fairly large battery storage system, so we would presumably be well equipped for this. However, I’m not sure if with our setup we can specifically control if and when power is drawn from the grid. Depending on the price (which can sometimes even be negative), it might make sense to feed everything from the photovoltaic system into the grid and power the household from the grid when the price (like yesterday) was as low as -40ct.
If anyone has any experience with this, good or bad, please feel free to share.
W
WilderSueden3 Jul 2023 14:03Technically, many things are possible, so the question is whether it should become a hobby. Since there is a 7c markup for Tibber and fees, and an 8c feed-in tariff, electricity prices would have to be at or below zero for Tibber to be worthwhile compared to solar photovoltaic. I recently came across the Blockheizkraftwerk Infozentrum website, which provides detailed statistics on negative electricity prices. Summer days with negative electricity prices seem to be relatively rare; most occur between December and May. Heating could potentially benefit from this, but the wholesale electricity price also shows seasonality. It is questionable whether we will continue to see negative electricity prices as often in winter, especially now that nuclear power plants are being phased out and many sectors are becoming electrified at the same time.
jrth2151 schrieb:
Occasionally, when renewable energy production in Germany is very high (sunshine, strong wind, etc.), it can happen that you actually get paid for consuming electricity for an hour. The app then shows a negative price and settles it accordingly.
With your battery storage and electric car, you can of course take full advantage and fully charge everything. But I can’t say for sure if it really works like that. You’d have to look into it some more. That’s why we got the idea. We came across it through an EV community because yesterday there was a post suggesting to quickly plug cars into the wall chargers, as the price was -45 cents, meaning you get paid 45 cents per kWh you consume.
WilderSueden schrieb:
Technically, a lot is possible, which is why the question is if it’s going to be a hobby. That’s exactly the point. The husband really enjoys this kind of thing. Plus, we’ve already invested a lot in our house with garden and technical gadgets, so the whole “house” and “living” project is kind of a hobby for us. 😉
Also, we’re relatively inexperienced but I find the concept very forward-looking because it encourages people to explicitly draw electricity from the grid when there is a surplus. Loads that we can distribute shouldn’t be unnecessarily stored (with losses) somewhere. When there is plenty of electricity, it’s best to use it. 😉
We’re also ideal candidates for such a system because we both work from home. That means we are at home during the day and can, if needed, manually start consumption when electricity is cheap.
WilderSueden schrieb:
With a 7-cent markup for Tibber and fees plus an 8-cent feed-in tariff, electricity prices would have to be zero or negative for Tibber to make sense compared to photovoltaics. Where does everyone get the 7-cent markup for Tibber from? According to their website, they don’t charge for consumption, only a monthly fee of €4.90 and a one-time purchase price of 100-150€ for the Pulse device.
What I’m wondering is: How well can I control my “home system”? Photovoltaics with storage and a wall charger is new territory for us. I probably need to ask an electrician. We read yesterday in the EV community that some people switched off their photovoltaic systems (inverter off) to draw as much as possible from the grid because the price was negative.
I’d rather avoid that. I installed my solar panels to generate clean electricity, and as much as possible at that. I don’t want to disconnect them. I have to sell my electricity at about 8 cents (per kWh), so in case of negative prices, I’d prefer to feed everything into the grid and cover our household demand from the grid. But that would require me to be able to control the system. So telling the photovoltaic system “feed in,” and the wall charger / battery / household “draw from the grid.”
It should at least be possible to tell the battery “don’t discharge until this evening,” but whether it’s possible to tell it “charge from the grid now, not through photovoltaics,” I don’t know.
What also puzzles me: Tibber publishes the prices for the next day the day before. How is that possible?
I have been using Tibber since February 2023, and since March also with the Pulse device connected to my bidirectional meter.
I have a photovoltaic system with 7.2 kVpeak (7.2 kWpeak), a 7.0 kW SolarEdge inverter, a BYD storage system with 8 kW, and an APL wallbox.
I drive a BMW 2 Series plug-in hybrid with an 8 kW battery that powers a 50 kW electric motor on the rear axle. Additionally, the car has a 160 HP gasoline engine.
In March, I paid €58.33 for 170 kWh. In April, €39.12 for 93 kWh, in May €32.65 for 67 kWh, and I will pay €44 for 177 kWh in June.
On top of the fluctuating wholesale price, there is a monthly fee of €14.94 for Tibber’s basic charge, metering point fee, and grid usage fee. This basic price is already included in the amounts mentioned above!
Overall, I have never paid so little for the remaining electricity as I do with Tibber. It is rare but possible to actually receive payment for the electricity consumed from Tibber. Yesterday, for one hour, we had a negative price of 48 cents per kWh!
The Tibber app communicates directly with my BMW. When I come home in the afternoon and my photovoltaic system generates more than 3.6 kWh of surplus power, I charge the car immediately. Otherwise, Tibber decides, and usually charging stops shortly and resumes at night.
The only thing I need to do in the app is to turn the “Smart Charging” function ON or OFF depending on the surplus power from the roof.
P.S.: The photovoltaic battery stays out of this. I don’t want to store the cheap electricity in the battery to then charge the car with it later. That doesn’t make sense during expensive morning and evening hours. Then I need the electricity from the BYD storage system.
One more tip: I have a hot water controller that heats the domestic hot water during the day with surplus electricity. Additionally, I can set the controller to heat the water until 6 a.m. using energy from the photovoltaic storage system. This means warm water in the morning and at least a half-full storage for the expensive morning hours. The storage system is refilled during the day for at least seven months a year and is available for use in the evening. Despite this, I still earn about €35-40 per month by feeding surplus power back into the grid.
My electricity consumption has dropped from 3,800 kWh to around 1,800 kWh within two years (during the setup of the photovoltaic system, photovoltaic storage, and hot water controller).
I can only recommend: Fill your roofs with solar panels and use Tibber for the remaining electricity.
I have a photovoltaic system with 7.2 kVpeak (7.2 kWpeak), a 7.0 kW SolarEdge inverter, a BYD storage system with 8 kW, and an APL wallbox.
I drive a BMW 2 Series plug-in hybrid with an 8 kW battery that powers a 50 kW electric motor on the rear axle. Additionally, the car has a 160 HP gasoline engine.
In March, I paid €58.33 for 170 kWh. In April, €39.12 for 93 kWh, in May €32.65 for 67 kWh, and I will pay €44 for 177 kWh in June.
On top of the fluctuating wholesale price, there is a monthly fee of €14.94 for Tibber’s basic charge, metering point fee, and grid usage fee. This basic price is already included in the amounts mentioned above!
Overall, I have never paid so little for the remaining electricity as I do with Tibber. It is rare but possible to actually receive payment for the electricity consumed from Tibber. Yesterday, for one hour, we had a negative price of 48 cents per kWh!
The Tibber app communicates directly with my BMW. When I come home in the afternoon and my photovoltaic system generates more than 3.6 kWh of surplus power, I charge the car immediately. Otherwise, Tibber decides, and usually charging stops shortly and resumes at night.
The only thing I need to do in the app is to turn the “Smart Charging” function ON or OFF depending on the surplus power from the roof.
P.S.: The photovoltaic battery stays out of this. I don’t want to store the cheap electricity in the battery to then charge the car with it later. That doesn’t make sense during expensive morning and evening hours. Then I need the electricity from the BYD storage system.
One more tip: I have a hot water controller that heats the domestic hot water during the day with surplus electricity. Additionally, I can set the controller to heat the water until 6 a.m. using energy from the photovoltaic storage system. This means warm water in the morning and at least a half-full storage for the expensive morning hours. The storage system is refilled during the day for at least seven months a year and is available for use in the evening. Despite this, I still earn about €35-40 per month by feeding surplus power back into the grid.
My electricity consumption has dropped from 3,800 kWh to around 1,800 kWh within two years (during the setup of the photovoltaic system, photovoltaic storage, and hot water controller).
I can only recommend: Fill your roofs with solar panels and use Tibber for the remaining electricity.
H
HeimatBauer3 Jul 2023 15:34Yep – it all depends on controllable large consumers. The example of the BMW communicating directly with Tibber is ideal. If you have to resort to dirty tricks and makeshift solutions to shift some consumption, it quickly turns into a hobby.
W
WilderSueden3 Jul 2023 15:39kati1337 schrieb:
Where are people getting the 7¢ surcharge for Tibber? According to their website, they don’t charge for consumption, only a monthly fee of €4.90 and a one-time cost for the Pulse device of €100–150. I got the 7¢ from @jrth2151. But Tibber mentions something closer to 15¢ for taxes and fees here, which would make self-generated electricity even more advantageous.
Honestly, I’m not quite sure about the graph. It says “today’s price” on top, but the day isn’t over yet? That would fit pretty well with the day-ahead pricing. But then that would actually be the electricity price for tomorrow, not for today?
WilderSueden schrieb:
To be honest, I don’t really understand the chart. It says "today’s price" at the top, but the day isn’t over yet? That would fit quite well with the day-ahead market. But then it would be the electricity price for tomorrow, not for today?The way it works is that from 1 PM onwards, they publish the prices for the following day. Then you can decide what to do. For example, yesterday it wasn’t like people saw "oh! If I draw electricity now, I get 48 cents!" — you actually find that out one day in advance.
In the chart above, you’re right, using solar power is still cheaper than drawing from the Tibber grid. But what I’m really interested in are scenarios — which have started to happen occasionally — where the electricity price drops so far into negative territory that after taxes and fees, you actually get paid to consume electricity. That’s what happened yesterday afternoon, for example, with something over 40 cents per kWh.
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