ᐅ The planner does not carry out any cost calculations according to DIN 276.
Created on: 11 Feb 2025 01:14
A
Antjeaergert
I have been reading diligently here and searching the forum – but I am simply overwhelmed.
We have the following problem. My father bought a listed (heritage-protected) house five years ago. The project was overseen by an architect.
An initial survey was conducted, and the renovation costs were estimated at around 400,000 euros.
Unfortunately, there is only one email in which the architect confirms that my father cannot spend more than 400,000 euros and that the costs would definitely stay within that range.
However, this is not the (current) main issue. The renovation, after four years spent in a holiday apartment and a planned duration of two years, has finally been completed.
The costs have, of course, gone completely out of control – my father raised this issue with the architect several times.
Towards the end of the project, he simply gave up and paid the invoices because he just wanted the house to be finished.
Now we have asked the architect to provide us with the cost estimate, calculation, and cost determination according to DIN 276, so that we can understand the costs and especially the overruns.
This request has simply been ignored – to this day, no estimate, calculation, or anything similar based on DIN 276 has been prepared. She even said she was not familiar with this standard.
She is now issuing her final invoice, claiming that she has fulfilled all her obligations.
This simply leaves me speechless. We were never informed about any warranty periods, even though defects have already appeared and we have asked about this.
Furthermore, there is still an unresolved invoice from a roofer who set up scaffolding here for weeks, which was not used. (However, I do not think this is my father’s fault.)
Do we have to pay all of this and really have no right to any calculation or clarification of the costs so that we can understand them? And does my father really have to pay the 10,000 euros for the scaffolding? The planner is actually responsible for scheduling – isn’t that why we hired her?!
I would be truly grateful for help – after all the trouble and the construction period, we are slowly at our limit – and the architect’s behavior cannot be lawful. Is she really allowed to present the final invoice without us having any claim to the services mentioned above?
This is a normal architect contract according to HOAI – she was responsible for work phases 1–9.
We have the following problem. My father bought a listed (heritage-protected) house five years ago. The project was overseen by an architect.
An initial survey was conducted, and the renovation costs were estimated at around 400,000 euros.
Unfortunately, there is only one email in which the architect confirms that my father cannot spend more than 400,000 euros and that the costs would definitely stay within that range.
However, this is not the (current) main issue. The renovation, after four years spent in a holiday apartment and a planned duration of two years, has finally been completed.
The costs have, of course, gone completely out of control – my father raised this issue with the architect several times.
Towards the end of the project, he simply gave up and paid the invoices because he just wanted the house to be finished.
Now we have asked the architect to provide us with the cost estimate, calculation, and cost determination according to DIN 276, so that we can understand the costs and especially the overruns.
This request has simply been ignored – to this day, no estimate, calculation, or anything similar based on DIN 276 has been prepared. She even said she was not familiar with this standard.
She is now issuing her final invoice, claiming that she has fulfilled all her obligations.
This simply leaves me speechless. We were never informed about any warranty periods, even though defects have already appeared and we have asked about this.
Furthermore, there is still an unresolved invoice from a roofer who set up scaffolding here for weeks, which was not used. (However, I do not think this is my father’s fault.)
Do we have to pay all of this and really have no right to any calculation or clarification of the costs so that we can understand them? And does my father really have to pay the 10,000 euros for the scaffolding? The planner is actually responsible for scheduling – isn’t that why we hired her?!
I would be truly grateful for help – after all the trouble and the construction period, we are slowly at our limit – and the architect’s behavior cannot be lawful. Is she really allowed to present the final invoice without us having any claim to the services mentioned above?
This is a normal architect contract according to HOAI – she was responsible for work phases 1–9.
W
wiltshire12 Feb 2025 07:31Antjeaergert schrieb:
Naturally, I do not want to pay the 6,000 euros she is requesting from the final invoice first (total amount 67,000 euros), Then withhold the money and justify it by the incomplete work within the period for objection. You write “first” – what else do you want?
I have to admit, I gradually have a very different impression than what the original poster is trying to describe. Now an amount that was 80,000 euros suddenly becomes 67,000 euros. How much of the rest is accurate then? Was there really only one quote per trade? Is it really 12,000 euros more for the scaffolding, or is that the total amount? Is there really no detailed cost breakdown? It also seems like there was some incident, since the architect no longer feels safe visiting clients without accompaniment.
Antjeaergert schrieb:
What if she isn’t actually an architect— You can easily find out by calling the Architects’ Board / Architects’ Association!
wiltshire schrieb:
@Antjeaergert : What do you really want to achieve? It’s hardly about a retrospectively completed estimate. That’s what I wonder too.
In the end, the renovation is finished, right? If invoices still arrive for services she didn’t provide, you can hire a lawyer to enforce “your rights,” meaning your father’s rights.
That means: your father’s responsibility. Your father’s mandate.
It seems to me you want to retroactively fill your father’s account with “rights,” even though action should probably have been taken at the time?
Many things have to be accepted as a lesson learned afterwards—it doesn’t matter whether you naïvely paid invoices or because the situation became overwhelming.
Well, you don’t have to accept everything.
If services were not provided or were done incorrectly, there is only one way to proceed:
- Withhold payment
- Request outstanding services
- Point out any errors, if present, and assign a cost to them
- Reach an agreement
If you cannot handle this on your own, you can consult a lawyer who will assist you for a corresponding fee.
If services were not provided or were done incorrectly, there is only one way to proceed:
- Withhold payment
- Request outstanding services
- Point out any errors, if present, and assign a cost to them
- Reach an agreement
If you cannot handle this on your own, you can consult a lawyer who will assist you for a corresponding fee.
Antjeaergert schrieb:
My father really paid every invoice within minutes – and he also wants to reach an agreement with the roofer. However, this is not my father’s fault, since the planner was the one who arranged all the appointments with the tradespeople. So why does he now have to pay €12,000 for scaffolding that was not even used – not by the roofer who was assembling it either?!
To be honest, I am quite sure we are even in the area of compensation for damages here – so it is hard for me to pay anything more now, especially since no cost determination has been made yet, and she simply claims “it’s just a bit expensive? But it turned out nice” [...] What if she is not even an architect but just a “specialist planner”? Is it then allowed to conclude such a contract covering all service phases – according to HOAI including attachments?
Is everyone allowed to do that? Only those who have demonstrably completed the relevant degree may call themselves architect(s) or civil engineer(s); without this, they are not allowed to work independently as a freelancer in this profession. They are also required to be registered members of the respective professional chamber (of their federal state of residence). This professional association is not an open club for anyone; only holders of the relevant professional licenses can (and must) be members. Architects state their chamber membership number on every contract and invoice, as well as on every building application or certificate issued to funding authorities. No one can simply call themselves “architect” if they didn’t succeed with running a nail salon. Using the HOAI (official scale of fees for architects and engineers) with the attitude “great, then I don’t have to come up with my own general terms and conditions and price list” is possible but pointless if one does not have the legal authorization to practice as an architect or engineer. “Poaching” as an architect would be an administrative offense and, in my opinion, would also invalidate any related service contract (I already mentioned the harsh term).
If the architect was authorized to hire the roofer and the roofer provided scaffolding beyond what was necessary for his own work, he must be paid accordingly under the contract. If your father is not responsible for the extended duration of the scaffolding rental, and the architect acted in bad faith and caused him harm, the roofer should not have to bear this cost. If your description – God forbid someone misleads their lawyer – is fully truthful, then the compensation for damages here seems to clearly outweigh the remaining fee. It’s Wednesday and lunchtime now, so lawyers are probably on the golf course. Therefore, call them directly tomorrow. I’m about to leave here myself.
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HarvSpec schrieb:
Well, you don’t have to accept everything. Is that your response to me now?
I already wrote:
ypg schrieb:
You can hire a lawyer to enforce “your right,” meaning your father’s right. Similar topics