ᐅ The planner does not carry out any cost calculations according to DIN 276.
Created on: 11 Feb 2025 01:14
A
Antjeaergert
I have been reading diligently here and searching the forum – but I am simply overwhelmed.
We have the following problem. My father bought a listed (heritage-protected) house five years ago. The project was overseen by an architect.
An initial survey was conducted, and the renovation costs were estimated at around 400,000 euros.
Unfortunately, there is only one email in which the architect confirms that my father cannot spend more than 400,000 euros and that the costs would definitely stay within that range.
However, this is not the (current) main issue. The renovation, after four years spent in a holiday apartment and a planned duration of two years, has finally been completed.
The costs have, of course, gone completely out of control – my father raised this issue with the architect several times.
Towards the end of the project, he simply gave up and paid the invoices because he just wanted the house to be finished.
Now we have asked the architect to provide us with the cost estimate, calculation, and cost determination according to DIN 276, so that we can understand the costs and especially the overruns.
This request has simply been ignored – to this day, no estimate, calculation, or anything similar based on DIN 276 has been prepared. She even said she was not familiar with this standard.
She is now issuing her final invoice, claiming that she has fulfilled all her obligations.
This simply leaves me speechless. We were never informed about any warranty periods, even though defects have already appeared and we have asked about this.
Furthermore, there is still an unresolved invoice from a roofer who set up scaffolding here for weeks, which was not used. (However, I do not think this is my father’s fault.)
Do we have to pay all of this and really have no right to any calculation or clarification of the costs so that we can understand them? And does my father really have to pay the 10,000 euros for the scaffolding? The planner is actually responsible for scheduling – isn’t that why we hired her?!
I would be truly grateful for help – after all the trouble and the construction period, we are slowly at our limit – and the architect’s behavior cannot be lawful. Is she really allowed to present the final invoice without us having any claim to the services mentioned above?
This is a normal architect contract according to HOAI – she was responsible for work phases 1–9.
We have the following problem. My father bought a listed (heritage-protected) house five years ago. The project was overseen by an architect.
An initial survey was conducted, and the renovation costs were estimated at around 400,000 euros.
Unfortunately, there is only one email in which the architect confirms that my father cannot spend more than 400,000 euros and that the costs would definitely stay within that range.
However, this is not the (current) main issue. The renovation, after four years spent in a holiday apartment and a planned duration of two years, has finally been completed.
The costs have, of course, gone completely out of control – my father raised this issue with the architect several times.
Towards the end of the project, he simply gave up and paid the invoices because he just wanted the house to be finished.
Now we have asked the architect to provide us with the cost estimate, calculation, and cost determination according to DIN 276, so that we can understand the costs and especially the overruns.
This request has simply been ignored – to this day, no estimate, calculation, or anything similar based on DIN 276 has been prepared. She even said she was not familiar with this standard.
She is now issuing her final invoice, claiming that she has fulfilled all her obligations.
This simply leaves me speechless. We were never informed about any warranty periods, even though defects have already appeared and we have asked about this.
Furthermore, there is still an unresolved invoice from a roofer who set up scaffolding here for weeks, which was not used. (However, I do not think this is my father’s fault.)
Do we have to pay all of this and really have no right to any calculation or clarification of the costs so that we can understand them? And does my father really have to pay the 10,000 euros for the scaffolding? The planner is actually responsible for scheduling – isn’t that why we hired her?!
I would be truly grateful for help – after all the trouble and the construction period, we are slowly at our limit – and the architect’s behavior cannot be lawful. Is she really allowed to present the final invoice without us having any claim to the services mentioned above?
This is a normal architect contract according to HOAI – she was responsible for work phases 1–9.
A
Antjeaergert11 Feb 2025 22:53Wow – thank you so much for this detailed and insightful response! It’s not only comforting for my peace of mind, but at times I’ve even doubted my own judgment. At the same time, it gives me the strength to try writing another letter in their direction.
At several points, I find it difficult not to react emotionally, because some of these glaring mistakes—and especially their reaction to them—are simply infuriating. In their last email, referring to their final invoice, they wrote that they were considering coming to our home with the police because they were afraid it would end in yelling if they wanted to collect their payment.
I couldn’t find a response to that, as it’s obviously ridiculous on their part—because even with a legitimate claim, this is hardly a professional way to demand payment. So far, I believed that only a reminder was used as a formal payment request… and the police would surely have explained that to them (civil law, jurisdiction, etc.).
All of this has really left me feeling powerless, as I just can’t believe what has happened.
When I look at the HOAI, I really get dizzy—they explicitly base their calculations on it but have simply failed to deliver so many services. What makes me even more speechless is their consistent ignoring of our requests—already during the construction phase and now, in the end, their statement that they don’t have to provide those services—the house is finished, after all.
At several points, I find it difficult not to react emotionally, because some of these glaring mistakes—and especially their reaction to them—are simply infuriating. In their last email, referring to their final invoice, they wrote that they were considering coming to our home with the police because they were afraid it would end in yelling if they wanted to collect their payment.
I couldn’t find a response to that, as it’s obviously ridiculous on their part—because even with a legitimate claim, this is hardly a professional way to demand payment. So far, I believed that only a reminder was used as a formal payment request… and the police would surely have explained that to them (civil law, jurisdiction, etc.).
All of this has really left me feeling powerless, as I just can’t believe what has happened.
When I look at the HOAI, I really get dizzy—they explicitly base their calculations on it but have simply failed to deliver so many services. What makes me even more speechless is their consistent ignoring of our requests—already during the construction phase and now, in the end, their statement that they don’t have to provide those services—the house is finished, after all.
A
Antjeaergert11 Feb 2025 22:56Musketier schrieb:
Is she an architect or not?
If she is not an architect, maybe she is not allowed or not required to provide the service.
If I understand correctly, specialized planners only handle partial tasks (e.g., structural engineer).
They also invoice according to the HOAI.
Is there a contract with the architect specifying which service phases are included? Yes, of course.
There is an "architect contract" that commissions her for all service phases from 1 to 9. This contract refers to the HOAI, as does her invoice, and also to an attachment. I will look for the contract at my father's tomorrow so I can provide the exact details.
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wiltshire11 Feb 2025 23:08@Antjeaergert : What do you really want to achieve? It’s hardly about an estimate filled in afterwards.
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nordanney11 Feb 2025 23:09Antjeaergert schrieb:
In her last email—referring to her final invoice—she wrote that she is considering coming to us with the police because she is afraid it will end in shouting if she wants her money. That’s just noise. The police will just dismiss her beforehand. She needs to provide verifiable proof of her work—11ant has written plenty about this, and I already asked if she’s really even an architect. Antjeaergert schrieb:
since this is, of course, unbelievably ridiculous on her part Of course. But there may be people who would be intimidated by that. Antjeaergert schrieb:
until now, I only knew the reminder as a payment request… It has been like this in the past and will be the same in the future. First a payment reminder, then a formal payment order, and finally going to court. Debt collection with methods like “Moskau-Inkasso” is still just a payment request but already in a legal grey zone. Antjeaergert schrieb:
When I look into the HOAI, I really get dizzy—she charges explicitly according to it and simply hasn’t provided so many services. What makes me even more speechless is her consistent ignoring of our requests—already during the construction phase and now, ultimately, her statement that she doesn’t have to provide these services—the house is finished after all. Sometimes normal communication is not enough. Then communication has to be done through third parties. A good example from my circle of acquaintances: I have a friend who lives simply and cheaply. The landlord, an older gentleman, is only interested in money. He saves on using a property management company but also cuts corners on expertise for the utility billing (and for heating cost distribution as well—there are heat meters attached to the supply lines to the apartments that should have been replaced almost 40 years ago and haven’t worked properly for ages. That's why heating costs are billed based on cubic meters of gas consumption per apartment in a central heating system...). So far, this was still manageable. But in the last two years, there have been defects in the apartment and for 2022, the friend faced charges around €700, and quite recently for 2023, around €1,600. There has been no response to the objection against the 2022 utility bill. The defects have not been fixed. Communication is a disaster—at best a “leave me alone or there will be a rent increase.” Finally, she agreed to let me persuade her to have a letter written by the tenants’ association (by a lawyer). It took only about 6-8 hours from delivery of that letter to the landlord contacting her for a discussion about a “deal.” It’s astonishing what effect it has when a letter from a legal assistant lists the defects in the utility billing and threatens a rent reduction due to the apartment issues. Let’s see what the discussion brings in the next few days.A
Antjeaergert12 Feb 2025 02:55Of course, I do not want to pay the €6,000 from the final invoice (total amount €67,000) that she is requesting, since I believe that the construction is not yet complete—especially given the significant defects already present here (including the brown pavement ants…), and despite the lack of clarification regarding the warranty and issues with the roofer.
Please don’t misunderstand me—my father has paid every invoice within minutes and also wants to reach an agreement with the roofer. However, this is not my father’s fault, as the planner was the one who scheduled all the appointments with the tradespeople. So why does he now have to pay €12,000 for scaffolding that was not used—not even by the roofer who was setting up?!
To be honest, I am convinced we might even be dealing with damages here, which makes it difficult for me to agree to any further payments, especially since no cost assessment has been made and she simply claims it “is just a bit pricey but looks nice” and then cheekily sends us messages saying, “Look what a house from 1700 renovated 30 years ago still fetches on the market.”
That is no basis at all.
What if she is not actually an architect but only a “specialist planner”? Is it then permissible to enter into a contract covering all service phases under HOAI, including attachments? Can just anyone do that?
Please don’t misunderstand me—my father has paid every invoice within minutes and also wants to reach an agreement with the roofer. However, this is not my father’s fault, as the planner was the one who scheduled all the appointments with the tradespeople. So why does he now have to pay €12,000 for scaffolding that was not used—not even by the roofer who was setting up?!
To be honest, I am convinced we might even be dealing with damages here, which makes it difficult for me to agree to any further payments, especially since no cost assessment has been made and she simply claims it “is just a bit pricey but looks nice” and then cheekily sends us messages saying, “Look what a house from 1700 renovated 30 years ago still fetches on the market.”
That is no basis at all.
What if she is not actually an architect but only a “specialist planner”? Is it then permissible to enter into a contract covering all service phases under HOAI, including attachments? Can just anyone do that?
H
HilfeHilfe12 Feb 2025 06:10whether it would be worth it for me to avoid paying 18,000 to the roofer and architect and just call it quits.
I believe the delays caused by incompetence and naivety have led to the enormous additional costs.
I believe the delays caused by incompetence and naivety have led to the enormous additional costs.
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