ᐅ The planner does not carry out any cost calculations according to DIN 276.
Created on: 11 Feb 2025 01:14
A
Antjeaergert
I have been reading diligently here and searching the forum – but I am simply overwhelmed.
We have the following problem. My father bought a listed (heritage-protected) house five years ago. The project was overseen by an architect.
An initial survey was conducted, and the renovation costs were estimated at around 400,000 euros.
Unfortunately, there is only one email in which the architect confirms that my father cannot spend more than 400,000 euros and that the costs would definitely stay within that range.
However, this is not the (current) main issue. The renovation, after four years spent in a holiday apartment and a planned duration of two years, has finally been completed.
The costs have, of course, gone completely out of control – my father raised this issue with the architect several times.
Towards the end of the project, he simply gave up and paid the invoices because he just wanted the house to be finished.
Now we have asked the architect to provide us with the cost estimate, calculation, and cost determination according to DIN 276, so that we can understand the costs and especially the overruns.
This request has simply been ignored – to this day, no estimate, calculation, or anything similar based on DIN 276 has been prepared. She even said she was not familiar with this standard.
She is now issuing her final invoice, claiming that she has fulfilled all her obligations.
This simply leaves me speechless. We were never informed about any warranty periods, even though defects have already appeared and we have asked about this.
Furthermore, there is still an unresolved invoice from a roofer who set up scaffolding here for weeks, which was not used. (However, I do not think this is my father’s fault.)
Do we have to pay all of this and really have no right to any calculation or clarification of the costs so that we can understand them? And does my father really have to pay the 10,000 euros for the scaffolding? The planner is actually responsible for scheduling – isn’t that why we hired her?!
I would be truly grateful for help – after all the trouble and the construction period, we are slowly at our limit – and the architect’s behavior cannot be lawful. Is she really allowed to present the final invoice without us having any claim to the services mentioned above?
This is a normal architect contract according to HOAI – she was responsible for work phases 1–9.
We have the following problem. My father bought a listed (heritage-protected) house five years ago. The project was overseen by an architect.
An initial survey was conducted, and the renovation costs were estimated at around 400,000 euros.
Unfortunately, there is only one email in which the architect confirms that my father cannot spend more than 400,000 euros and that the costs would definitely stay within that range.
However, this is not the (current) main issue. The renovation, after four years spent in a holiday apartment and a planned duration of two years, has finally been completed.
The costs have, of course, gone completely out of control – my father raised this issue with the architect several times.
Towards the end of the project, he simply gave up and paid the invoices because he just wanted the house to be finished.
Now we have asked the architect to provide us with the cost estimate, calculation, and cost determination according to DIN 276, so that we can understand the costs and especially the overruns.
This request has simply been ignored – to this day, no estimate, calculation, or anything similar based on DIN 276 has been prepared. She even said she was not familiar with this standard.
She is now issuing her final invoice, claiming that she has fulfilled all her obligations.
This simply leaves me speechless. We were never informed about any warranty periods, even though defects have already appeared and we have asked about this.
Furthermore, there is still an unresolved invoice from a roofer who set up scaffolding here for weeks, which was not used. (However, I do not think this is my father’s fault.)
Do we have to pay all of this and really have no right to any calculation or clarification of the costs so that we can understand them? And does my father really have to pay the 10,000 euros for the scaffolding? The planner is actually responsible for scheduling – isn’t that why we hired her?!
I would be truly grateful for help – after all the trouble and the construction period, we are slowly at our limit – and the architect’s behavior cannot be lawful. Is she really allowed to present the final invoice without us having any claim to the services mentioned above?
This is a normal architect contract according to HOAI – she was responsible for work phases 1–9.
nordanney schrieb:
So yes, if service phase 8 is commissioned, the cost determination must also take place – it is paid for by the client (or at least the architect wants to receive the payment regardless of the work performed). Antjeaergert schrieb:
I don’t know how far this goes, but my current approach against this woman is to demand the services, since she is already reminding about the final invoice – and with payment of that, the architect’s services would also be accepted. At the latest, with payment for services that 2. should not have been provided and 1. were not provided, at the very least an administrative offense and a criminal offense would also be fulfilled.
chand1986 schrieb:
And since I obviously don’t think enough like a lawyer, as I still don’t understand what use the document has (other than you having to pay for its creation), my opinion remains to simply hire a lawyer. A lawyer would also not understand what the OP would want to do with the long since completely useless calculation. It is a basic service (as mentioned, a mandatory task, not optional, theoretically waivable but not unilaterally). The architect did not provide it, and her statements on this can be submitted as evidence in court. Whether a complaint about it is still valid after four years, I don’t know – but I assume yes, because the deadline probably only starts with the final invoice. When the OP will finally get legal advice, only the gods know. Determining whether the architect is indeed an architect is quite easy and has already been described here. I have to leave now (just came back from shopping, but forgot the popcorn). A dispute over this calculation would probably be seen by the magistrate Gerichtsrat Wunder as contempt of court. Kindergarten.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
A
Antjeaergert13 Feb 2025 18:36Musketier schrieb:
I didn’t work with an architect, so I’m completely unfamiliar with the HOAI regulations.
The first thing I noticed is that when I add up the percentages in the contract, I only get 87%. So not all service phases must be agreed upon, right?
Also, it may be necessary to check which version of DIN 276 applies. The contract is probably several years old.
Search for this topic:
“Do costs now have to be determined according to the new DIN 276?”
If I understand correctly, there are major differences between the old and new DIN 276. If the old version still applies here, the cost estimate in design phase 2 must be done according to DIN 276. (This apparently happened, according to post #7.)
For determining the billable costs this could also apply, but apparently, contrary to what the contract states, the billable costs were calculated using the Winden construction cost table, not actual costs.
Regarding the cost explosion again, your father, as you claimed, received a cost estimate by individual work packages with minimum and maximum values. If the bricklayer’s quote is much higher than the maximum originally estimated, then intervention could have taken place back then to stop things from getting out of hand. It has been widely reported through the media that construction prices are soaring and that contractors are offering defensive bids.
If after 4 years now the daughter (who is not a party to the contract) suddenly loudly questions everything from the last 4 years that was previously approved and signed by the contracting party, then I would let her drop it.
If necessary, just with the general statement that she is not familiar with this DIN standard. 11ant schrieb:
(At the latest) when paying for services that 2. should not have been provided and 1. were not even provided, this would constitute an administrative offense and potentially criminal conduct.
A lawyer also wouldn’t understand what the original poster still wants to do with this now completely useless calculation. It is a basic service (as mentioned, mandatory and not optional, theoretically waivable but not unilaterally). The architect did not deliver it, and her statements about it could be presented as evidence in court. Whether a complaint about this after four years is still valid, I do not know – but I assume yes, since the deadline would probably only start with the final invoice. When the original poster will finally get legal advice, only the gods know. The determination of whether she actually qualifies as an architect is very easy to establish and has already been described here. I have to leave now (I just got back from shopping but forgot the popcorn). A dispute over this calculation would probably be seen by the magistrate as contempt of court. Child’s play. She is not. Allegedly, she holds a diploma in engineering and officially refers to herself now only as a specialist planner.
Antjeaergert schrieb:
She is not one. Allegedly, she holds a diploma in engineering and now officially refers to herself only as a technical planner. Then she has the full planning authorization, but with just structural engineering or utility planning alone, you won’t get very far on a project like this. Her father didn’t plan a bridge or a combined heat and power plant. What does "only _still_" mean?
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
C
chand198613 Feb 2025 19:31Antjeaergert schrieb:
She is not one. Supposedly, she holds a graduate engineering degree and officially refers to herself only as a specialist planner.But is there a contract for work or similar with her, in which she is designated as an “architect”?A
Antjeaergert14 Feb 2025 10:28chand1986 schrieb:
But with her, there is a construction contract or similar where she acts as the "architect"? Yes, she has a planner contract according to Alp 1-9
and this morning the payment reminder for her final invoice arrived
C
chand198614 Feb 2025 12:03Antjeaergert schrieb:
Yes, she has a planner contract for Alp 1-9And only registered architects are allowed to do that? Anyone can call themselves a "planner" at first.Similar topics