ᐅ The Same Old Problem – Turnkey Contracting vs. Individual Contracts
Created on: 6 Nov 2014 09:52
N
Neubau82
Good morning, dear new building community!
I am facing the classic decision... whether to go for a turnkey build or to contract everything separately...
First, here are my key data:
Plot size – 805 m2 (8,663 sq ft) available
Living area – 160 m2 (1,722 sq ft)
Roof – gable roof 22°
Floors – 2 full floors
Basement – fully cellar
Heating system – air heat exchanger
Heating – underfloor heating on ground and upper floors
Windows – plastic frames, triple-glazed
Bathroom – shower/bath/2 washbasins on upper floor
Toilet – WC/shower on ground floor, prepared connections in basement
Garage – double garage 9 x 5 m (30 x 16 ft)
Floor plan – simple, rectangular without slopes or offsets, symmetrical
Dormers – none
For the above building project, we have received a turnkey offer of €345,000.
I am now very uncertain whether I can actually save anything by contracting the entire build separately... I also know that the construction industry can be quite hectic, and one often a) waits ages for quotes, and b) has trouble finding anyone with availability.
I am skilled in crafts myself (trained carpenter) and also have many acquaintances in the construction industry (bricklayers, carpenters, electricians, etc.). Unfortunately, you still have to present figures to the bank... which in turn require reliable data... leaving aside the mental strain...
After extensive research and discussion, I have gathered many opinions and perspectives. The following comments from my friends and acquaintances have been on my mind day and night:
- Don’t contract the trades separately, you won’t save anything; in fact, it might even be more expensive. General contractors negotiate completely different prices than you can (structural engineer)
- Based on experience, contracting separately at this scale leads to additional costs of about €100,000. General contractors negotiate very different prices than you can (architect)
Since these statements come from very experienced people, I think there must be some truth to them...
What is your opinion?
Be brave and contract separately?
I just want to sleep well again... well, I guess I can forget about that for at least a year anyway.
Thanks for your advice!
I am facing the classic decision... whether to go for a turnkey build or to contract everything separately...
First, here are my key data:
Plot size – 805 m2 (8,663 sq ft) available
Living area – 160 m2 (1,722 sq ft)
Roof – gable roof 22°
Floors – 2 full floors
Basement – fully cellar
Heating system – air heat exchanger
Heating – underfloor heating on ground and upper floors
Windows – plastic frames, triple-glazed
Bathroom – shower/bath/2 washbasins on upper floor
Toilet – WC/shower on ground floor, prepared connections in basement
Garage – double garage 9 x 5 m (30 x 16 ft)
Floor plan – simple, rectangular without slopes or offsets, symmetrical
Dormers – none
For the above building project, we have received a turnkey offer of €345,000.
I am now very uncertain whether I can actually save anything by contracting the entire build separately... I also know that the construction industry can be quite hectic, and one often a) waits ages for quotes, and b) has trouble finding anyone with availability.
I am skilled in crafts myself (trained carpenter) and also have many acquaintances in the construction industry (bricklayers, carpenters, electricians, etc.). Unfortunately, you still have to present figures to the bank... which in turn require reliable data... leaving aside the mental strain...
After extensive research and discussion, I have gathered many opinions and perspectives. The following comments from my friends and acquaintances have been on my mind day and night:
- Don’t contract the trades separately, you won’t save anything; in fact, it might even be more expensive. General contractors negotiate completely different prices than you can (structural engineer)
- Based on experience, contracting separately at this scale leads to additional costs of about €100,000. General contractors negotiate very different prices than you can (architect)
Since these statements come from very experienced people, I think there must be some truth to them...
What is your opinion?
Be brave and contract separately?
I just want to sleep well again... well, I guess I can forget about that for at least a year anyway.
Thanks for your advice!
B
Bauherren201411 Nov 2014 11:39Bauexperte schrieb:
To be fair, I want to point out that there are building forums where the tone is much harsher than hereNo question, I completely agree with you.
That’s also the reason why I actually enjoy reading and posting here most of the time.
The problem I see in this case is that the original poster and other readers might become even more uncertain about what is best for them. Because, after all, there is no one-size-fits-all solution. Every approach has its pros and cons, and it is up to each individual to figure out which path they want to take.
B
Bauexperte11 Nov 2014 12:03Hello,
In my opinion, you don’t need to worry about that. Anyone reasonably sensible should have enough common sense and life experience to distinguish factual arguments from emotional posts; usually, each question here receives more than one answer.
And – honestly? If someone cannot do that, in my view they should not even attempt building a house themselves, especially not managing individual trade contracts.
Someone once told me, “You can’t save everyone” – it took me a while, but eventually I understood. So my previous statement might come across as harsh or cold, but it’s pure self-protection. The fact is, there are incorrigible people – you will mostly find those in forums when the proverbial damage is already done; it wasn’t possible before. It’s also true that there are people who – regardless of how things are done – only focus on the lowest price and then, in my opinion, become the rightful victims of their own foolishness. The result is, anyone with common sense or who recognizes they need external help will not fail in the house-building project; they can properly assess contributions in forums like this and also understand whether an architect or a general contractor/general builder is the right choice.
Foolish regards
Bauherren2014 schrieb:
The problem I see in this case is that the original poster and other readers might become even more uncertain about what is best for them.
In my opinion, you don’t need to worry about that. Anyone reasonably sensible should have enough common sense and life experience to distinguish factual arguments from emotional posts; usually, each question here receives more than one answer.
And – honestly? If someone cannot do that, in my view they should not even attempt building a house themselves, especially not managing individual trade contracts.
Someone once told me, “You can’t save everyone” – it took me a while, but eventually I understood. So my previous statement might come across as harsh or cold, but it’s pure self-protection. The fact is, there are incorrigible people – you will mostly find those in forums when the proverbial damage is already done; it wasn’t possible before. It’s also true that there are people who – regardless of how things are done – only focus on the lowest price and then, in my opinion, become the rightful victims of their own foolishness. The result is, anyone with common sense or who recognizes they need external help will not fail in the house-building project; they can properly assess contributions in forums like this and also understand whether an architect or a general contractor/general builder is the right choice.
Foolish regards
Bauherren2014 schrieb:
Hello building expert,
As you yourself write, everyone is the architect of their own fortune. But that doesn’t necessarily mean one way is better than the other.
Yes, we also built with an architect, but that certainly isn’t a cure-all.
Just as there are good and bad architects, there are good and bad general contractors (GCs). In the end, it’s always an intuitive decision and also depends on how much involvement I want and am able to have during construction. A turnkey build can be just as good as a house created through separate trade contracts.That is exactly what I want to convey.
With a GC, the tradespeople are more or less “assigned” to you. This gives a certain sense of security to someone new to building. A homeowner building with a freelance architect can fail just as easily as one building with a GC. After all, the same tradespeople work for both GCs and architects. I can imagine, however, that a tradesperson might encourage their employees to perform especially well on a “big project” for an architect. For a GC, the work must fundamentally be satisfactory, as the client provides the base workload for the company.
Bauexperte schrieb:
Hello,
In my opinion, you should worry least about that. Anyone reasonably sensible will have enough common sense and life experience to distinguish factual arguments from emotional contributions; typically, every question here receives more than one answer.For some, and I believe also for klblb, the status of building with an architect applies. I can understand that when a poor GC with an unmotivated architect is compared to a creative freelance architect. Unfortunately, we must say that this type of architect is a minority percentage-wise. I know houses from architects (not only from our new development) that offer less quality of life than standard houses from a GC. Of course, it is unknown how well client wishes were considered.
But I also know architects personally whose own homes were far from state-of-the-art.
Capital available also plays a major role here.
Problems with tradespeople occur equally with GCs and architect builds—at least from what I’ve seen in my little new build world.
A tip for those building with a GC (and also with a freelance architect): seek contact with the tradespeople on site. Friendliness and respect are much better received than condescension or bossy attitudes. This way, as a GC client, you may also receive helpful advice and small extras will be done as a matter of course.
Those who don’t have time (after all, this is one reason for choosing a turnkey GC build) can still be confident that the house will be built as planned.
And not to forget: a GC also has an architect!
As a general rule in exchanging opinions: don’t look at a situation only from your own perspective; try to view it from above or from the outside and assess the situation objectively.
Best regards,
Yvonne
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