Dear experts and renovation professionals,
My husband and I have come across a small farmhouse (main house built around 1800) that we instantly fell in love with. The previous owner invested a lot of effort over the last five years, and both the energy certificate and the heating system are new. The bathrooms have been renovated with high-quality materials, and the electrical wiring in the bathrooms as well as in the new kitchen has been updated. The small farm is priced at about 80,000 euros, and we were ready to finalize everything until someone advised us against it. The reason: the ceilings on the upper floor are extremely low and have been lowered even further. We thought (we are both not experts) that this is normal for an old farmhouse and that it could be changed. However, the covered wall beams upstairs are all uneven, sagging slightly downward, and three of the four room ceilings are bowed down. Only one beam is exposed, and it shows slight signs of woodworm infestation. The current owner says the beam was inspected and treated before he moved in and that everything is fine.
We then went up to the unfinished attic with our "expert," who said the problem lies there because the ceiling can no longer support the weight of the old clay insulation. To address this, everything would have to be removed, re-insulated, and the ceilings raised at the same time. His opinion is that all the covered beams are damaged; otherwise, they would not sag slightly, and that if we are unlucky, they might be eaten through by woodworm. On the attic, all visible roof beams and floor joists were free of holes and showed no signs of mold or moisture.
What do you think? Is this a major risk or just a normal renovation factor for an old house? In the worst-case scenario, what kind of costs should we expect if the beams really have to be exposed and replaced? (We would like to handle at least the removal of the ceilings and the old clay layer ourselves.)
Problem 2
What is probably much worse: the house is connected to a directly attached barn and a small stable by a large roof, forming a sort of shallow U-shape. According to the previous owner, the concrete tiles are no longer visually appealing but still watertight. Our helper said the roof needs to be completely redone because the tiles are already disintegrating. The owner’s idea was to tear down the barn and stable down to ground floor height and then build a flat or slightly sloped roof there to save costs. He said the still intact roof parts (beams) could be reused. Our helper, who works in drywall construction, threw out some rough figures that shocked us. We know a new roof covering for this area will cost a lot, but the question is whether it makes sense financially and for the future to re-roof the entire structure or just demolish it.
What do you think? What costs should we expect?
We know it is almost impossible to estimate without a proper inspection—we are looking for a second opinion and a rough estimate of the scope we are dealing with here, should we decide to go ahead with this small farmhouse dream.
Is there a cost-effective option? For example, only roofing the house with tiles and covering the barn and stable with bitumen corrugated sheets? Would that be sensible?
We appreciate any friendly tips, advice, or experiences!
Steffi and Patrick#
General information about the farmhouse (main house built around 1800)
House: 130 sqm (about 1,400 sq ft)
Barn: Garage/heating room on the ground floor, just a hayloft above (not planned for conversion)
Stable: 3 horse stalls (not planned for conversion)
Energy certificate: Green, 113 kWh
Windows: New
Heating: New (wood gasification boiler)
Bathrooms: 2 bathrooms renovated this year, high quality – electrical wiring new
Kitchen: Renovated, electrical wiring new
Sewage: Septic system / connections prepared for possible connection to municipal network
Farmyard/land: Well maintained
Terrace: Renovated
Other electrical work: Needs to be done
Purchase price: 80,000 euros
My husband and I have come across a small farmhouse (main house built around 1800) that we instantly fell in love with. The previous owner invested a lot of effort over the last five years, and both the energy certificate and the heating system are new. The bathrooms have been renovated with high-quality materials, and the electrical wiring in the bathrooms as well as in the new kitchen has been updated. The small farm is priced at about 80,000 euros, and we were ready to finalize everything until someone advised us against it. The reason: the ceilings on the upper floor are extremely low and have been lowered even further. We thought (we are both not experts) that this is normal for an old farmhouse and that it could be changed. However, the covered wall beams upstairs are all uneven, sagging slightly downward, and three of the four room ceilings are bowed down. Only one beam is exposed, and it shows slight signs of woodworm infestation. The current owner says the beam was inspected and treated before he moved in and that everything is fine.
We then went up to the unfinished attic with our "expert," who said the problem lies there because the ceiling can no longer support the weight of the old clay insulation. To address this, everything would have to be removed, re-insulated, and the ceilings raised at the same time. His opinion is that all the covered beams are damaged; otherwise, they would not sag slightly, and that if we are unlucky, they might be eaten through by woodworm. On the attic, all visible roof beams and floor joists were free of holes and showed no signs of mold or moisture.
What do you think? Is this a major risk or just a normal renovation factor for an old house? In the worst-case scenario, what kind of costs should we expect if the beams really have to be exposed and replaced? (We would like to handle at least the removal of the ceilings and the old clay layer ourselves.)
Problem 2
What is probably much worse: the house is connected to a directly attached barn and a small stable by a large roof, forming a sort of shallow U-shape. According to the previous owner, the concrete tiles are no longer visually appealing but still watertight. Our helper said the roof needs to be completely redone because the tiles are already disintegrating. The owner’s idea was to tear down the barn and stable down to ground floor height and then build a flat or slightly sloped roof there to save costs. He said the still intact roof parts (beams) could be reused. Our helper, who works in drywall construction, threw out some rough figures that shocked us. We know a new roof covering for this area will cost a lot, but the question is whether it makes sense financially and for the future to re-roof the entire structure or just demolish it.
What do you think? What costs should we expect?
We know it is almost impossible to estimate without a proper inspection—we are looking for a second opinion and a rough estimate of the scope we are dealing with here, should we decide to go ahead with this small farmhouse dream.
Is there a cost-effective option? For example, only roofing the house with tiles and covering the barn and stable with bitumen corrugated sheets? Would that be sensible?
We appreciate any friendly tips, advice, or experiences!
Steffi and Patrick#
General information about the farmhouse (main house built around 1800)
House: 130 sqm (about 1,400 sq ft)
Barn: Garage/heating room on the ground floor, just a hayloft above (not planned for conversion)
Stable: 3 horse stalls (not planned for conversion)
Energy certificate: Green, 113 kWh
Windows: New
Heating: New (wood gasification boiler)
Bathrooms: 2 bathrooms renovated this year, high quality – electrical wiring new
Kitchen: Renovated, electrical wiring new
Sewage: Septic system / connections prepared for possible connection to municipal network
Farmyard/land: Well maintained
Terrace: Renovated
Other electrical work: Needs to be done
Purchase price: 80,000 euros
What is the situation with buildings from around 1800 regarding historic preservation?
You have listed Halle as your location in your profile – is the farmhouse near Halle? Then 80,000 would be considered a typical price for that area, right?
Is there an ID available on Immonet or IS24?
You have listed Halle as your location in your profile – is the farmhouse near Halle? Then 80,000 would be considered a typical price for that area, right?
Is there an ID available on Immonet or IS24?
H
HilfeHilfe16 Oct 2017 07:26When the dads have the say :-) but I hope they’re not going crazy (because of the roof damage). Just kidding!
If you already know which trades obviously need to be done and you’re unsure whether it’s going to be a “money pit,” consider getting a bricklayer and roofer to give you a rough estimate of the costs.
The financing will probably be the main issue. Not every bank is keen on financing a farmhouse including renovations. Maybe that’s common in your area.
If you already know which trades obviously need to be done and you’re unsure whether it’s going to be a “money pit,” consider getting a bricklayer and roofer to give you a rough estimate of the costs.
The financing will probably be the main issue. Not every bank is keen on financing a farmhouse including renovations. Maybe that’s common in your area.
P
Paule&Steff17 Oct 2017 09:48No, the farm is not located in Hallo but about an hour away in a village. The property is not listed as a historic monument. We have spoken with the owner again; he is having a carpenter inspect it and will expose the beams at the bottom. In my opinion, this does not suggest that he just wants to get rid of the farm at any cost. He has really put in a lot of effort. We have photos of what it looked like before...
It’s simply too large for him alone, just him and his little one, and he wants to pass it on to good hands. Once the carpenter has been contacted, we will visit again to hear the assessment directly.
Financing is already arranged.
If the carpenter doesn’t strongly object, we plan to partially dismantle the barn and stable down to the ground floor since we wouldn’t use the dead space anyway and will have a lightweight sloped roof installed.
As I said, I’m not a professional, but from what I can see of the roof beams, they don’t look broken or rotten. However, these are old beams that were certainly not installed just 50 years ago.
________________________________________________________________
A lot has already been done on the property, which really appeals to us. =( We don’t want to fall into debt, but the farm would definitely be a dream.
The cost of new electrical wiring can be estimated, but the condition of the beams in the upper floor is less clear.
I read in another forum that a sagging of the beams by 5-6 cm (2-2.5 inches) is quite normal and not necessarily a structural problem, since building standards 200 years ago were different from today.
The low ceiling height only affects the children’s rooms and the guest room, which we could live with.
We are both very uncertain.
It’s simply too large for him alone, just him and his little one, and he wants to pass it on to good hands. Once the carpenter has been contacted, we will visit again to hear the assessment directly.
Financing is already arranged.
If the carpenter doesn’t strongly object, we plan to partially dismantle the barn and stable down to the ground floor since we wouldn’t use the dead space anyway and will have a lightweight sloped roof installed.
As I said, I’m not a professional, but from what I can see of the roof beams, they don’t look broken or rotten. However, these are old beams that were certainly not installed just 50 years ago.
________________________________________________________________
A lot has already been done on the property, which really appeals to us. =( We don’t want to fall into debt, but the farm would definitely be a dream.
The cost of new electrical wiring can be estimated, but the condition of the beams in the upper floor is less clear.
I read in another forum that a sagging of the beams by 5-6 cm (2-2.5 inches) is quite normal and not necessarily a structural problem, since building standards 200 years ago were different from today.
The low ceiling height only affects the children’s rooms and the guest room, which we could live with.
We are both very uncertain.
Winniefred30 Oct 2017 19:00I would review everything with your own building expert. Whether the bank will finance it is questionable, because a property in that location will likely never be worth the amount of money you put into it. By the time it’s finished, you will probably have invested at least 180,000 plus property transfer tax, notary fees, and so on, and you would never get that money back when selling. You can see this with the current seller. He’s unable to sell it and surely needs to at least recoup what he has invested so far. That’s why he’s now offering you a deal. You have to be aware of that. If something goes wrong, you will be deeply in the negative. So this needs to be a property where you want to live long-term, and ideally nothing major (illness, death, divorce, etc.) should happen. I also find such properties incredibly interesting, but you have to weigh everything very carefully. A lot of work has already been done, so at least for some trades, you don’t need to budget anything for the next few decades. My advice: take an expert with you, look very closely, weigh up all aspects carefully. Just think it through thoroughly. If it is your dream, and the location suits you, then it can also be the right decision. Personally, we needed the security of being able to sell our house quickly and without loss at any time, if necessary. Because it’s simply such a large amount of money. But everyone has a different approach to this.
Friends of ours bought a small timber-framed house in a similarly poor location for around 20,000€ and have been renovating it themselves for eight years because they couldn’t take out much credit. But they are happy with it, and that’s what matters. Even they would never have a chance to recoup anything close to what they have invested if they sold. In fact, they would have to be grateful if they managed to sell it at all.
Friends of ours bought a small timber-framed house in a similarly poor location for around 20,000€ and have been renovating it themselves for eight years because they couldn’t take out much credit. But they are happy with it, and that’s what matters. Even they would never have a chance to recoup anything close to what they have invested if they sold. In fact, they would have to be grateful if they managed to sell it at all.