Hello everyone,
I know my title is a bit ambiguous. I initially wanted to write “toilet cartel,” but that wouldn’t be nearly as funny.
We received a first quote for the sanitary fixtures, and I’m really taken aback. I carefully researched the prices for the items I want online beforehand. I can’t accept paying €980 (about $1,070) in this quote for a washbasin that I can buy online for €250 (about $270)! That’s over 300% more. Where do these prices come from, generally speaking? I understand that the manufacturer, the supplier, and finally the installer all want to make a profit… but is there no way to get these items cheaper, the ones the installer will install?
I just don’t understand why we’re supposed to pay an additional €7,700 (about $8,400) for a few things we want done differently. Our general contractor doesn’t care where we source the bathroom fixtures, so we’re not tied to this one supplier.
How did you handle this? Did you just accept the extra cost? Or did anyone dare to organize and have these things installed independently?
Thanks in advance for your advice!
I know my title is a bit ambiguous. I initially wanted to write “toilet cartel,” but that wouldn’t be nearly as funny.
We received a first quote for the sanitary fixtures, and I’m really taken aback. I carefully researched the prices for the items I want online beforehand. I can’t accept paying €980 (about $1,070) in this quote for a washbasin that I can buy online for €250 (about $270)! That’s over 300% more. Where do these prices come from, generally speaking? I understand that the manufacturer, the supplier, and finally the installer all want to make a profit… but is there no way to get these items cheaper, the ones the installer will install?
I just don’t understand why we’re supposed to pay an additional €7,700 (about $8,400) for a few things we want done differently. Our general contractor doesn’t care where we source the bathroom fixtures, so we’re not tied to this one supplier.
How did you handle this? Did you just accept the extra cost? Or did anyone dare to organize and have these things installed independently?
Thanks in advance for your advice!
T
toxicmolotof5 Apr 2016 13:34Perhaps an interesting side note: The plumbing wholesaler was fined less than a month ago for price-fixing. So, there definitely was some kind of toilet cartel involved.
When looking at online prices, you really shouldn’t forget about the accessories.
Our bathtub costs 700 euros, with adjustable feet and accessories 950 euros, and the plumber got us the same bathtub through his wholesaler for 1300 euros, including installation.
So there is a markup somewhere, yes, but it’s not outrageous or excessively expensive.
I think it all depends on making sure you’re really comparing the same things.
When looking at online prices, you really shouldn’t forget about the accessories.
Our bathtub costs 700 euros, with adjustable feet and accessories 950 euros, and the plumber got us the same bathtub through his wholesaler for 1300 euros, including installation.
So there is a markup somewhere, yes, but it’s not outrageous or excessively expensive.
I think it all depends on making sure you’re really comparing the same things.
Bautraum20155 Apr 2016 13:35Thank you all for your assessments. I will keep you updated.
Bauexperte schrieb:
Hello,
This is basically the wrong approach! The internet won't install a bathtub or a shower for you (installing a simple washbasin or a basic toilet and connecting it is not complicated, though). These offers are purely lump sum prices; they completely omit costs for transport and installation. I don’t quite understand. Don’t you receive a detailed quote or invoice breaking down materials and labor?
If the item is already priced 300% above an online price and labor plus travel expenses are added further down, I would definitely be skeptical. In general, I’m always cautious about this kind of approach because it lacks transparency and makes comparisons difficult.
Let’s see if this becomes relevant for us.
B
Bauexperte5 Apr 2016 16:00Hello,
Best regards, Bauexperte
MarcWen schrieb:If you buy through a main contractor, general contractor, or turnkey builder: no. Mostly, you will be given only the final installation prices. Detailed offers broken down into materials and labor costs are usually only provided through an architect, although even then, contractors have ways to blend or mix price details. Based on users’ responses here, the question remains: for what purpose does an offer need to be broken down?
I don’t quite understand? Don’t you get an offer or invoice broken down into materials and labor costs?
MarcWen schrieb:Answering questions like the original poster’s in a forum is always a balancing act because rarely are all facts known. Honestly, I probably shouldn’t have answered at all (Wrobel was wiser); I admit I was annoyed by the blanket criticism of the plumber. I still don’t know how the surcharge is composed, only that the original poster overlooked the fact that there are also “small parts” needed for installation. But it doesn’t end there — warranties and guarantees also cost money and are factored in proportionally with every step taken. After all, not only the discerning homeowner wishes to work with financially solid construction partners.
If the item is already 300% above an online price and on top of that labor and travel costs are charged, I would question it as well. In general, I find such procedures questionable because of the lack of transparency and comparability.
Best regards, Bauexperte
I also wonder with these kinds of questions whether the small parts, as well as brackets, adapters, and ultimately all the pipes reaching every last corner of the bathroom, are included in the prices—how are laypersons like the original poster supposed to know these prices, including installation costs? With a general contractor, everything is priced in, including all supply and drainage lines, regardless of how long they might be due to changes in the floor plan—not to mention the warranty.
Therefore, I seriously question the 300%.
Therefore, I seriously question the 300%.
Hi,
Simple answer: because the customer wants it that way!
And because transparency helps prevent the customer from feeling like they’re being overcharged—like when the sink costs three times as much as at the local hardware store. With a detailed quote, a reputable supplier can show how their price is calculated and prove that they’re not simply marking up 300% and using your sink to pay for their luxury accessories.
If a supplier refuses to at least partially itemize their quote, I have to assume they’re trying to take advantage of me. After all, they must have broken down their own cost calculation internally…
Best regards,
Andreas
So the question remains: why does an offer need to be itemized?
Simple answer: because the customer wants it that way!
And because transparency helps prevent the customer from feeling like they’re being overcharged—like when the sink costs three times as much as at the local hardware store. With a detailed quote, a reputable supplier can show how their price is calculated and prove that they’re not simply marking up 300% and using your sink to pay for their luxury accessories.
If a supplier refuses to at least partially itemize their quote, I have to assume they’re trying to take advantage of me. After all, they must have broken down their own cost calculation internally…
Best regards,
Andreas
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