Hello everyone,
I know my title is a bit ambiguous. I initially wanted to write “toilet cartel,” but that wouldn’t be nearly as funny.
We received a first quote for the sanitary fixtures, and I’m really taken aback. I carefully researched the prices for the items I want online beforehand. I can’t accept paying €980 (about $1,070) in this quote for a washbasin that I can buy online for €250 (about $270)! That’s over 300% more. Where do these prices come from, generally speaking? I understand that the manufacturer, the supplier, and finally the installer all want to make a profit… but is there no way to get these items cheaper, the ones the installer will install?
I just don’t understand why we’re supposed to pay an additional €7,700 (about $8,400) for a few things we want done differently. Our general contractor doesn’t care where we source the bathroom fixtures, so we’re not tied to this one supplier.
How did you handle this? Did you just accept the extra cost? Or did anyone dare to organize and have these things installed independently?
Thanks in advance for your advice!
I know my title is a bit ambiguous. I initially wanted to write “toilet cartel,” but that wouldn’t be nearly as funny.
We received a first quote for the sanitary fixtures, and I’m really taken aback. I carefully researched the prices for the items I want online beforehand. I can’t accept paying €980 (about $1,070) in this quote for a washbasin that I can buy online for €250 (about $270)! That’s over 300% more. Where do these prices come from, generally speaking? I understand that the manufacturer, the supplier, and finally the installer all want to make a profit… but is there no way to get these items cheaper, the ones the installer will install?
I just don’t understand why we’re supposed to pay an additional €7,700 (about $8,400) for a few things we want done differently. Our general contractor doesn’t care where we source the bathroom fixtures, so we’re not tied to this one supplier.
How did you handle this? Did you just accept the extra cost? Or did anyone dare to organize and have these things installed independently?
Thanks in advance for your advice!
B
Bauexperte5 Apr 2016 10:53Hello,
Every supplier bases their offers on a mixed calculation; their initial offer price depends on their purchasing conditions. If a customer deviates from this, it often becomes more expensive simply because rarely ordered features carry higher acquisition costs. Add the effort of procurement – which they will naturally charge for – and you arrive at figures like the ones you mentioned. This assumes, of course, that the quality is the same as that installed by a specialist supplier.
By the way, in my opinion, you cannot build a house using the argument “I can buy it on the internet for x€,” since according to internet prices, even a brick (regardless of material) is cheaper online than from any house builder!
The warranty also applies for two years with owner-supplied sanitary fixtures—unless the manufacturer states a different period or offers additional guarantees. The plumber you hire is responsible for proper installation and connection to the existing plumbing.
Best regards, Bauexperte
Bautraum2015 schrieb:Basically, this approach is incorrect! The internet won’t install a bathtub or a shower for you (installing and connecting a simple washbasin or a basic toilet is not rocket science, though). These offers only show product prices; costs for transport and installation are entirely missing.
I carefully researched prices on the internet beforehand for the items I want.
Bautraum2015 schrieb:First of all, which product line is it, and are you sure the sanitary fixtures match those of your general contractor (GC) or their plumber in terms of quality? I always think of the difference between bathroom fittings from a hardware store versus a specialist supplier – the gap is huge. If you can answer “yes” to this, the next question is why did you choose your provider at all?
I don’t see why I should pay €980 for a washbasin that I can buy online for €250!
Every supplier bases their offers on a mixed calculation; their initial offer price depends on their purchasing conditions. If a customer deviates from this, it often becomes more expensive simply because rarely ordered features carry higher acquisition costs. Add the effort of procurement – which they will naturally charge for – and you arrive at figures like the ones you mentioned. This assumes, of course, that the quality is the same as that installed by a specialist supplier.
By the way, in my opinion, you cannot build a house using the argument “I can buy it on the internet for x€,” since according to internet prices, even a brick (regardless of material) is cheaper online than from any house builder!
Bautraum2015 schrieb:I could take the easy way out and say that this itemization serves to adjust the offer price “front to back” into a normal range. But that would be too simplistic, which is why I explained it at the beginning. Also, you owe an explanation of what exactly is included in the €7,700 in relation to the standard offer.
I just don’t understand why we have to pay a total surcharge of €7,700 for a few things we want done differently.
Bautraum2015 schrieb:You can certainly buy the sanitary fixtures yourself and then hire a plumber you trust. I just don’t believe this would save you money. You will also need a drywall installer, a tiler, and possibly a plasterer. Your GC will likely refuse to coordinate with subcontractors you hire independently. In the end, this is likely to cost about the same, if not more, because the plumber cannot profit from supplied products and will probably charge a different installation fee.
Or has anyone here dared to organize and have these things installed themselves?
Thanks in advance for your tips!
The warranty also applies for two years with owner-supplied sanitary fixtures—unless the manufacturer states a different period or offers additional guarantees. The plumber you hire is responsible for proper installation and connection to the existing plumbing.
Best regards, Bauexperte
Bautraum20155 Apr 2016 10:59I understand that the bathtub and shower are not intended for self-installation. Here, we have also stuck to the standard, so the extra costs arise solely from fittings, washbasins, toilets, flush plates, and shower doors/partitions. I had the washbasins, fittings, and toilets calculated identically, meaning from the same series. Can I approach the installer and say, "Hey, can you get these parts for us?"
B
Bauexperte5 Apr 2016 11:04Bautraum2015 schrieb:
Shower doors/partitions. You can easily spend a small fortune just on those .....Bautraum2015 schrieb:
Can’t I just go to the plumber and say, "hey, can you get these parts for us?"Nothing ventured, nothing gained.Then the question remains: what about your supplier’s "markup"? You want to dispute that, but the currently contracted plumber will definitely have to factor it in; I’d be surprised if not. So "give me a shave but don’t wet me" won’t work here either.
Regards, Bauexperte
Bautraum20155 Apr 2016 11:08You’re right. I just have to give it a try.
I also just realized that it’s not that easy for me to calculate the extra costs. Of course, we have exceeded the standard here and there. We were aware of that from the beginning. But things like all the installation accessories, he needs those anyway. So my next step is to ask my general contractor what total amount he has for the entire sanitary equipment… right?
P.S.: shower doors €800 each
I also just realized that it’s not that easy for me to calculate the extra costs. Of course, we have exceeded the standard here and there. We were aware of that from the beginning. But things like all the installation accessories, he needs those anyway. So my next step is to ask my general contractor what total amount he has for the entire sanitary equipment… right?
P.S.: shower doors €800 each
Bautraum2015 schrieb:
But things like all the accessories for the installation are needed anyway. So my next step is to ask my general contractor (GC) what they would charge as a total amount x for the entire sanitary equipment....right?
P.S.: shower doors cost 800€ eachYes, of course you need a lot of accessories for the plumbing installation; it’s hard to imagine, but all that stuff comes by the boxload.
Yes, that’s the right question – including installation and all materials. Also, never compare apples to oranges: if the GC uses branded materials and fittings, it will cost more than products from a hardware store.
Discounts or substitutions from the GC usually don’t help much, as they rarely charge the real price. That can end up costing you a lot of money and hassle.
Even small upgrades beyond the standard can cause very high costs in the bathroom area, without any visible added value.
Some acquaintances recently renovated their bathroom with very high-quality materials, but when you’re spending over 30,000 euros, you can expect quality. For that amount, I built two bathrooms with basic standard and slightly above (trade-quality materials, not hardware store) and also completed the interior work of the house including flooring and interior doors.
Is it worse? No – it’s still very nice, and visitors unfamiliar with it are regularly impressed, especially with the bathrooms we have.
800 euros (about $880) for the shower enclosure is reasonable. When it is installed properly, a professional might spend about 3 hours on that alone, and labor costs need to be paid.
In my opinion, nothing beats a good plumber who works cleanly and meticulously in the sanitary sector.
Best regards,
Thorsten
We had similar "problems" previously.
However, our general contractor (GC) handled it a bit differently. He wrote a lump sum X into the contract, which, in his view, would cover our bathroom and shower bathroom including bathroom furniture.
I then researched the prices online, added about 50% on top, and found that we should be well within that amount.
After that, we went to the recommended bathroom supplier. We told them the budget and our preferences, and were guided through the selection. Unfortunately, there were no prices displayed in the showroom. In the end, when the formal offer arrived, it was about twice as high as the initially specified amount. Our GC was almost shocked (“Did you order golden faucets?”).
He then recommended we go directly to our plumbing company, which also has its own showroom. There, we discussed everything with the manager, looked for and found alternatives of equivalent quality, removed the shower door, and finally ended up at the GC’s price plus 1,000 euros (these were the very expensive toilets that my wife really liked – those still had to be purchased through the bathroom supplier).
Ask your GC about their plumbing company and whether they might have their own showroom.
By the way, it’s apparently not uncommon for the GC to add a margin on top of the suppliers’ costs (or that they receive a discount, but you end up paying the fixed price). We experienced this with the tiles: the tile center was quite surprised and contacted the GC several times, because he passed his discount on to us.
However, our general contractor (GC) handled it a bit differently. He wrote a lump sum X into the contract, which, in his view, would cover our bathroom and shower bathroom including bathroom furniture.
I then researched the prices online, added about 50% on top, and found that we should be well within that amount.
After that, we went to the recommended bathroom supplier. We told them the budget and our preferences, and were guided through the selection. Unfortunately, there were no prices displayed in the showroom. In the end, when the formal offer arrived, it was about twice as high as the initially specified amount. Our GC was almost shocked (“Did you order golden faucets?”).
He then recommended we go directly to our plumbing company, which also has its own showroom. There, we discussed everything with the manager, looked for and found alternatives of equivalent quality, removed the shower door, and finally ended up at the GC’s price plus 1,000 euros (these were the very expensive toilets that my wife really liked – those still had to be purchased through the bathroom supplier).
Ask your GC about their plumbing company and whether they might have their own showroom.
By the way, it’s apparently not uncommon for the GC to add a margin on top of the suppliers’ costs (or that they receive a discount, but you end up paying the fixed price). We experienced this with the tiles: the tile center was quite surprised and contacted the GC several times, because he passed his discount on to us.
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