ᐅ Mid-terrace house near Stuttgart, looking for advice and support
Created on: 13 Feb 2022 21:41
R
RMH Fabi
Good evening everyone,
we want to build a house, but we have no experience with this. So any help is very welcome. Thank you in advance.
Here are the basic details of the project.
Building plot:
Gifted by my dad. Very nice.
I still need the market value or actual price of the plot to fairly settle the inheritance with my sister.
Is it possible without an expert appraisal? Because that also costs around 2,000–3,000 euros.
166 sqm (1,786 sq ft), small but fine, in a district of Weinstadt.
There are already terraced houses on the right and left, see picture.
What will be built?
No basement, just a slab foundation.
Floor plan 7 m x 11 m (23 ft x 36 ft).
3 full floors.
Attic converted.
The neighbor with the garage said he has about 170 sqm (1,830 sq ft) of living space. His house was built about 25 years ago.
Where do we stand?
Well, basically at the beginning and I don't think we know what we really need to know.
I think we are already quite limited by the regulations.
On the ground floor there should be a cellar compartment, laundry room, and a small office.
On the 1st floor living/dining room and kitchen, guest toilet.
On the 2nd floor 2 children's rooms, 1 master bedroom, daylight bathroom.
Attic: wish for a roof terrace and basically a guest room, possibly a toilet or shower toilet.
We also want a carport or garage with a terrace facing the street and something small at the back.
Please feel free to share ideas and suggestions — what must I consider when planning?
We don’t want to plan without a clear direction.
Is there a simple floor plan tool?
I have already tried some free ones and didn’t like any.
I have now ordered A3 graph paper.
Construction method:
Today we visited the prefabricated home exhibition in Fellbach and had 3 conversations, 3 different opinions.
1. Schwörerhaus:
Didn’t want to hear much from us.
Said they are very flexible and can build almost completely custom.
The only limitation is no more than 3 full floors.
Otherwise, no disadvantages of timber frame construction.
He said, and this was strange, that if the contract is signed, the building permit (building permission/planning permission) would take 6 months?? This was dismissed as nonsense by exhibitor number 3.
Anyway, he said if someone signs a contract with Schwörerhaus today, they can move in within 2 years.
2. (Timber frame prefab, anonymous):
Immediately advised us to build with solid construction because of the offset of the walls relative to the neighbors.
Is that true?
Recommended Fermo and Pfeil.
I already researched and read something about them here in the forum.
Fermo is supposed to be very expensive but good.
Pfeil is apparently an old-school construction company and supposedly also great.
Was he honest or what?
He said about €3500 per sqm (about $325 per sq ft). That was a shock!
Is that the current reality? Can someone confirm?
3. Regnauer
We went there just because my wife liked it very much.
They are also flexible and build everything to order.
Price indication €3200 per sqm (about $297 per sq ft)??
So I will get started and get in touch with the construction companies:
My initial list will be:
Solid construction:
Schneider Bau Fellbach,
Pfeil Althütte,
Fermo,
Böpple,
Heinz von Heiden.
Timber frame:
Will schedule an appointment with Schwörerhaus, although they are not really a favorite.
Regnauer.
Are there any tips for specialists in terraced middle houses?
Any general advice?
Any tips about terraced middle houses?
What do I need to know at this point? What should I be thinking about?
Do I need to involve anyone for sure?
Thank you very much for any replies and have a nice Sunday.
we want to build a house, but we have no experience with this. So any help is very welcome. Thank you in advance.
Here are the basic details of the project.
Building plot:
Gifted by my dad. Very nice.
I still need the market value or actual price of the plot to fairly settle the inheritance with my sister.
Is it possible without an expert appraisal? Because that also costs around 2,000–3,000 euros.
166 sqm (1,786 sq ft), small but fine, in a district of Weinstadt.
There are already terraced houses on the right and left, see picture.
What will be built?
No basement, just a slab foundation.
Floor plan 7 m x 11 m (23 ft x 36 ft).
3 full floors.
Attic converted.
The neighbor with the garage said he has about 170 sqm (1,830 sq ft) of living space. His house was built about 25 years ago.
Where do we stand?
Well, basically at the beginning and I don't think we know what we really need to know.
I think we are already quite limited by the regulations.
On the ground floor there should be a cellar compartment, laundry room, and a small office.
On the 1st floor living/dining room and kitchen, guest toilet.
On the 2nd floor 2 children's rooms, 1 master bedroom, daylight bathroom.
Attic: wish for a roof terrace and basically a guest room, possibly a toilet or shower toilet.
We also want a carport or garage with a terrace facing the street and something small at the back.
Please feel free to share ideas and suggestions — what must I consider when planning?
We don’t want to plan without a clear direction.
Is there a simple floor plan tool?
I have already tried some free ones and didn’t like any.
I have now ordered A3 graph paper.
Construction method:
Today we visited the prefabricated home exhibition in Fellbach and had 3 conversations, 3 different opinions.
1. Schwörerhaus:
Didn’t want to hear much from us.
Said they are very flexible and can build almost completely custom.
The only limitation is no more than 3 full floors.
Otherwise, no disadvantages of timber frame construction.
He said, and this was strange, that if the contract is signed, the building permit (building permission/planning permission) would take 6 months?? This was dismissed as nonsense by exhibitor number 3.
Anyway, he said if someone signs a contract with Schwörerhaus today, they can move in within 2 years.
2. (Timber frame prefab, anonymous):
Immediately advised us to build with solid construction because of the offset of the walls relative to the neighbors.
Is that true?
Recommended Fermo and Pfeil.
I already researched and read something about them here in the forum.
Fermo is supposed to be very expensive but good.
Pfeil is apparently an old-school construction company and supposedly also great.
Was he honest or what?
He said about €3500 per sqm (about $325 per sq ft). That was a shock!
Is that the current reality? Can someone confirm?
3. Regnauer
We went there just because my wife liked it very much.
They are also flexible and build everything to order.
Price indication €3200 per sqm (about $297 per sq ft)??
So I will get started and get in touch with the construction companies:
My initial list will be:
Solid construction:
Schneider Bau Fellbach,
Pfeil Althütte,
Fermo,
Böpple,
Heinz von Heiden.
Timber frame:
Will schedule an appointment with Schwörerhaus, although they are not really a favorite.
Regnauer.
Are there any tips for specialists in terraced middle houses?
Any general advice?
Any tips about terraced middle houses?
What do I need to know at this point? What should I be thinking about?
Do I need to involve anyone for sure?
Thank you very much for any replies and have a nice Sunday.
Well, what can I say, you’re right.
We’re now right in the middle of it. Financing is basically secured for the very worst-case scenario. So that’s checked off.
Things are getting more concrete now, and it’s really amazing what we hadn’t thought of yet.
The floor plan is also taking its final shape.
We’re working on a kind of building application folder so that, when the time comes, we can get truly comparable offers.
What’s really crazy is figuring out what each home builder is offering you—what and how detailed. We definitely need an Excel spreadsheet to keep track, and a lot of construction and specification documents have to be read.
Just trying to compare the wall construction in timber frame construction or finding information online is incredibly time-consuming and almost impossible.
Currently, this is our project:
What is still missing?
Where can money be saved?
Carport, yes, probably a kit.
Photovoltaic system?
Does it make sense to request the basement construction ourselves?
House floor plan 7m x 11m (23ft x 36ft)
Eaves height 6.6m (22ft)
Ridge height 10.8m (35ft)
Basement (BG), ground floor (GF), upper floor (UF), and attic (optional finished attic)
Entrance is in the basement
Basement -> basement at floor level:
Entrance area south side
- Hall with coat rack
- Tiled
- Underfloor heating
Office facing south with window
- Vinyl or laminate floor
- Underfloor heating
Heating room & laundry NW side
- Air source heat pump with split unit
- Tiled
- Large washbasin
Room for tools/workbench/storage NE side
- Light well
- No underfloor heating
- Not tiled
Optional WC
**Total costs for basement**
Ground Floor:
- Kitchen north side with kitchen island
- Tiled
- Separated from living/dining area by large glass sliding door
- Underfloor heating
- Terrace north side
- Sliding door
- Pantry near kitchen
- Underfloor heating not required
- Vinyl/laminate
- Guest WC
- Underfloor heating
- Living-dining room south side
- Vinyl floor
- Underfloor heating
- Possible exit from living room to carport if a balcony is later built above the carport – sliding door
- Window seat south side
Upper Floor:
Complete underfloor heating
- Bedroom north side
- Vinyl
- Floor-to-ceiling windows
- Bathroom north side
- Bathtub
- Walk-in shower without shower screen
- Heated towel rail
- WC
- 2 washbasins
- Tiled
- 2 equal size children’s rooms south side
- Prefer children’s rooms bigger and bedroom smaller
- Floor-to-ceiling windows
- 1 small storage room/walk-in closet
Attic
- Stairway up to attic
- Options listed individually in offer
- 2 windows
- Underfloor heating
- Insulation
Other options listed individually including costs:
- Painting and wallpapering work
- Plastering work
- Knee wall for maximum ridge height
- Underfloor cooling
- Air source heat pump -> exchanger outside north side
- Photovoltaic system
- Photovoltaic ready
- Preparation for electric car charging station
- Laundry chute from upper floor bathroom down to basement
- Extending to attic
- Carport south side
- Carport load capacity for balcony
- Automatic roller shutters
- Freestanding bathtub
- Vinyl
- Tiles
- Additional costs to achieve KfW 40 or 40EE standard
We’re now right in the middle of it. Financing is basically secured for the very worst-case scenario. So that’s checked off.
Things are getting more concrete now, and it’s really amazing what we hadn’t thought of yet.
The floor plan is also taking its final shape.
We’re working on a kind of building application folder so that, when the time comes, we can get truly comparable offers.
What’s really crazy is figuring out what each home builder is offering you—what and how detailed. We definitely need an Excel spreadsheet to keep track, and a lot of construction and specification documents have to be read.
Just trying to compare the wall construction in timber frame construction or finding information online is incredibly time-consuming and almost impossible.
Currently, this is our project:
What is still missing?
Where can money be saved?
Carport, yes, probably a kit.
Photovoltaic system?
Does it make sense to request the basement construction ourselves?
House floor plan 7m x 11m (23ft x 36ft)
Eaves height 6.6m (22ft)
Ridge height 10.8m (35ft)
Basement (BG), ground floor (GF), upper floor (UF), and attic (optional finished attic)
Entrance is in the basement
Basement -> basement at floor level:
Entrance area south side
- Hall with coat rack
- Tiled
- Underfloor heating
Office facing south with window
- Vinyl or laminate floor
- Underfloor heating
Heating room & laundry NW side
- Air source heat pump with split unit
- Tiled
- Large washbasin
Room for tools/workbench/storage NE side
- Light well
- No underfloor heating
- Not tiled
Optional WC
**Total costs for basement**
Ground Floor:
- Kitchen north side with kitchen island
- Tiled
- Separated from living/dining area by large glass sliding door
- Underfloor heating
- Terrace north side
- Sliding door
- Pantry near kitchen
- Underfloor heating not required
- Vinyl/laminate
- Guest WC
- Underfloor heating
- Living-dining room south side
- Vinyl floor
- Underfloor heating
- Possible exit from living room to carport if a balcony is later built above the carport – sliding door
- Window seat south side
Upper Floor:
Complete underfloor heating
- Bedroom north side
- Vinyl
- Floor-to-ceiling windows
- Bathroom north side
- Bathtub
- Walk-in shower without shower screen
- Heated towel rail
- WC
- 2 washbasins
- Tiled
- 2 equal size children’s rooms south side
- Prefer children’s rooms bigger and bedroom smaller
- Floor-to-ceiling windows
- 1 small storage room/walk-in closet
Attic
- Stairway up to attic
- Options listed individually in offer
- 2 windows
- Underfloor heating
- Insulation
Other options listed individually including costs:
- Painting and wallpapering work
- Plastering work
- Knee wall for maximum ridge height
- Underfloor cooling
- Air source heat pump -> exchanger outside north side
- Photovoltaic system
- Photovoltaic ready
- Preparation for electric car charging station
- Laundry chute from upper floor bathroom down to basement
- Extending to attic
- Carport south side
- Carport load capacity for balcony
- Automatic roller shutters
- Freestanding bathtub
- Vinyl
- Tiles
- Additional costs to achieve KfW 40 or 40EE standard
WilderSueden schrieb:
I come from the software industry and am basically familiar with the process. And I also believe that you are actually handling the process differently than you just described. No, that’s basically fine. Especially now, again.
WilderSueden schrieb:
Everyone is basically interested, because they want to sell you something and make money from it. Just the fact that there are a lot of salespeople sitting in show homes should be proof enough for you. In fact, some builders, especially those specializing in solid construction, are not interested in cooperating. Either they have no capacity, they don’t build on infill plots, or they simply stop responding.
Reihenmittelhaus Fabi schrieb:
We are working on a kind of building application portfolio to later get truly comparable offers when we are ready. What are your expectations regarding how deeply contractors are willing to engage in the challenge of a selection process?
Reihenmittelhaus Fabi schrieb:
What’s really crucial is to distinguish what each builder offers you—what and how detailed. You probably need an Excel spreadsheet to compare and you have to read a lot of construction and service descriptions. The Excel spreadsheet would need to be built like a Falk planner. To quote Shakespeare: Sisyphus, Pyrrhus, or Varus—that is the question here. The best construction specification is not read, it’s written.
Reihenmittelhaus Fabi schrieb:
Just trying to compare wall build-ups in timber frame construction or searching for them online is incredibly time-consuming and practically impossible. As pointless as I usually find it, in this particular case I see the timber panel builders as hardly interested or desirable at all. Look around at the local masonry builders. Overall, I find this project hardly suitable for a layperson to manage, no matter how boldly one is willing to take on the windmills. An architect is needed here.
Reihenmittelhaus Fabi schrieb:
Does it make sense to request the basement construction yourself? No. It’s only early March, and yet I’ve already said this several times this year. Opening the interface at the floor slab (OKKD) as a weak spot for tricky responsibility issues around coordinating components is akin to cutting sums blindly.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
F
FoxMulder248 Mar 2022 08:35Reihenmittelhaus Fabi schrieb:
...
Photovoltaic system?
...As of May, photovoltaic systems are mandatory in Baden-Württemberg, so this question probably doesn’t arise. However, it would be interesting to know how different general contractors handle this. Is it easy to remove and install the system yourself (while the scaffolding is still up and the house hasn’t been officially handed over yet)? Or do some contractors make it difficult? Photovoltaic systems are usually very expensive when handled through the general contractors.11ant schrieb:
What are your expectations regarding how deeply the providers are willing to engage with the challenge of a tender? Well, the hope that dies last is that we receive comparable offers.
11ant schrieb:
The Excel sheet would have to be built like a Falk plan. Paraphrasing Shakespeare: Sisyphus, Pyrrhus, or Varus – that is the question here. You don’t read the best scope of work description; you write it. I had to google what a Falk plan is 🙂 That roughly reveals your building era 🙂
Well, the level of detail is naturally open-ended but maybe useful for an overview. It’s still better than having five booklets side by side. Is the best scope of work description written? That may be true, but so far I’ve only been actively in contact with timber frame builders.
11ant schrieb:
As pointless as I find it otherwise, in this specific case I see all timber frame panel builders as hardly interested or desirable. Look around among the local masonry builders. I generally see this project as hardly suitable for amateur contracting, no matter how fearless one is about reaching for windmill blades. An architect is needed here. Why do you see the project as demanding and why an architect?
An architect just for planning or to also contract them?
Is masonry better than timber framing? You really can’t say that, can you?
I’m already further along with the timber framers because, unlike the masons I contacted, they didn’t reject me outright or quote extremely high prices per m² (meters squared). → Fermo.
In the forum, you can still find masons in my region to ask, and I will do so. However, I simply haven’t had any luck so far, whether with larger companies like Heinz von Heiden, Viebrockhaus, Fermo, Böpple, Krämer, or smaller ones like Bürkle, Pfeil, Otto-Bayer. Only Schneider Bau in Esslingen hasn’t ruled it out yet. I actually scheduled an appointment for mid-April over a week ago!
Are there threads you haven’t read? 🙂
By the way, are you an architect yourself?
11ant schrieb:
No. It’s only early March, but I have already mentioned this several times this year. Opening the interface OKKD as a flank for "Black Peter" games regarding the responsibility for matching components is the sibling of cutting sums. I had to read that sentence twice, but thanks — then the subject is off the table.
FoxMulder24 schrieb:
From May onward, photovoltaic systems will be mandatory in Baden-Württemberg, so this question probably doesn’t arise.
It would be interesting how the individual general contractors handle this now. Can it easily be removed and installed by yourself (as long as the scaffolding is still up and the house hasn’t been handed over)? Or do some cause trouble? Photovoltaics are usually very expensive when done through the general contractors. Yes, that’s why it’s an option. I also think photovoltaic-ready is sufficient and the photovoltaic system provided by someone else.
But then it already goes in the direction of “not from a single source,” which was important to us at the start. Where do you start and where do you stop?
Photovoltaic system not from the general contractor
Carport as a kit
Painting and filling done ourselves, and suddenly we’re doing exactly what we didn’t want 🙂
The Hoffmann is the last to die, as I always say. But professionally, I work with tendering processes and know that Excel spreadsheets are THE tool for pre-decision makers. Based on my year of birth, I’m a ‘77 baby. I’m not an architect, but rather a construction navigator after some interesting detours. Thanks to my 11ant-like memory, I retain well what I have read once. There is a whole section here, especially in the financing threads, where I have hardly read any of the threads — otherwise, I have read almost everything since I’ve been here, going back about a year.
An architect designs, creates detailed plans, manages the tendering, and supervises construction. The client then commissions the contractor(s) based on the architect’s recommendation following the tender results.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Reihenmittelhaus Fabi schrieb:What does that have to do with the construction method?
The best scope of work description is written by whom? Yes, that may be true, but so far I have only been actively in contact with timber prefab builders.
Reihenmittelhaus Fabi schrieb:If a gap-house in a row of houses is not a demanding project, then enlighten me!
Why do you see the project as demanding, and why an architect?
Is an architect only for planning or will they also be commissioned?
An architect designs, creates detailed plans, manages the tendering, and supervises construction. The client then commissions the contractor(s) based on the architect’s recommendation following the tender results.
Reihenmittelhaus Fabi schrieb:Exactly, you generally can’t say that because their equivalence despite differences would make such a statement wrong. But in an infill house in a row, as a construction navigator, I cannot see a prefabricated house fitting in — whether the wall panels are masonry or timber frame — but rather a masonry infill house must be integrated. For the same reason, I would also see a carpenter-built house there if the neighboring buildings were wooden.
Is masonry better than timber framing? You can’t really say that, right?
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
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