Hello!
We are planning to have a house built and are currently still in the initial planning phase. However, after a conversation with the architect, we are already considering heating options.
We are not building a KfW-certified house, but one strictly following the Energy Saving Ordinance. It will have about 220m² (2,368 sq ft) of living space plus a basement.
In various building specifications from contractors (we are having a turnkey build), we often see heat pumps that require an additional outdoor unit beside the system in the utility room. For aesthetic reasons, we are not very keen on that.
What alternatives are there for this kind of setup?
Gas heating combined with solar (the gas connection is available)?
Geothermal heat pumps?
Or other air-to-water heat pumps that do not require an outdoor unit?
We will probably have a hipped roof (with regard to solar panels). With a flat roof, the panels look quite unattractive.
We are planning to have a house built and are currently still in the initial planning phase. However, after a conversation with the architect, we are already considering heating options.
We are not building a KfW-certified house, but one strictly following the Energy Saving Ordinance. It will have about 220m² (2,368 sq ft) of living space plus a basement.
In various building specifications from contractors (we are having a turnkey build), we often see heat pumps that require an additional outdoor unit beside the system in the utility room. For aesthetic reasons, we are not very keen on that.
What alternatives are there for this kind of setup?
Gas heating combined with solar (the gas connection is available)?
Geothermal heat pumps?
Or other air-to-water heat pumps that do not require an outdoor unit?
We will probably have a hipped roof (with regard to solar panels). With a flat roof, the panels look quite unattractive.
R
R.Hotzenplotz5 Jun 2017 07:43ypg schrieb:
What do you expect from a heating system? That it switches quickly like in a car... from 0 to 100? Always switching between 17 and 24 degrees Celsius (63°F and 75°F), because 17 is too cold and 24 is too warm? For my part, it was simply an observation that I never reach 17 degrees Celsius (63°F) in the bedroom without any heating on. It was not a value judgment. I do prefer to sleep cooler than at 21 degrees Celsius (70°F), but that wouldn’t be a reason for radiators. Especially since that would be pointless, as even the underfloor heating is simply off.
When I criticized the sluggishness of the underfloor heating, it was not about the 17-degree issue but more general. Larger temperature fluctuations outside are poorly compensated. Our goal is usually to keep it at 21 degrees Celsius (70°F) indoors. Normally it works fine. But when it suddenly gets noticeably warmer, the underfloor heating compensates very slowly. The next day we then partly have 23.5 degrees Celsius (74°F) inside, which only regulates back to normal two days after the temperature change. When a temperature drop follows, the adjustment is somewhat quicker but still takes a full day. That’s what I mean by sluggishness. Not the back-and-forth jumping between 17 and 24 degrees Celsius (63°F and 75°F). We don’t need that.
Alex85 schrieb:
I’ve never needed that before. But I’m looking forward to the controlled ventilation system to avoid waking up in a stuffy room. Maybe that’s just personal. The controlled ventilation system is definitely planned for us too. Great feature.
Alex85 schrieb:
But seriously, if that’s important for your well-being, look for an existing property. Too late. The architects are already working on the design, and we’re waiting for the demolition permit for the old building. That wouldn’t have been an option anyway. We want something customized, and existing buildings simply don’t fit that — and certainly not at an affordable price. But fundamentally, we will accept underfloor heating. We will just make sure to get good advice so that we don’t end up with a sluggish system like the one we have now. We actually want something integrated with smart home technology. Each room will have its own thermostat where we can set the desired temperature. The heating system then regulates itself independently. Currently, there are mechanical thermostats with rotary controls, but these don’t work well at all, and the temperature markings on them simply don’t match reality. We want a system that is fully electronically controlled.
To understand a well-functioning heating system:
Nowadays, both the central heating and underfloor heating should be designed to run continuously 24/7. The underfloor heating is dimensioned and hydraulically balanced according to the heating demand for each room. This allows the central heating to maintain the desired temperature in the room at all times. Individual room control becomes unnecessary.
The thermal inertia is intentional because it enables operation with a low supply temperature, which is very efficient and energy-saving.
Errors leading to high energy consumption are usually caused by poor planning.
What you are aiming for now with smart home solutions is often heavily promoted, but very difficult to implement.
However, you could, for example, use underfloor heating for basic temperature control and possibly install a wall or ceiling heating system as well. These might respond more quickly.
Nowadays, both the central heating and underfloor heating should be designed to run continuously 24/7. The underfloor heating is dimensioned and hydraulically balanced according to the heating demand for each room. This allows the central heating to maintain the desired temperature in the room at all times. Individual room control becomes unnecessary.
The thermal inertia is intentional because it enables operation with a low supply temperature, which is very efficient and energy-saving.
Errors leading to high energy consumption are usually caused by poor planning.
What you are aiming for now with smart home solutions is often heavily promoted, but very difficult to implement.
However, you could, for example, use underfloor heating for basic temperature control and possibly install a wall or ceiling heating system as well. These might respond more quickly.
R
R.Hotzenplotz5 Jun 2017 08:21So is it normal to have a full day at 23.5°C (74°F) during strong temperature increases instead of the desired 21°C (70°F)? Suddenly, you're sitting here in the apartment wearing a T-shirt.
Additional components would definitely be too expensive for us. Since the warming up is still bearable, we are more bothered by the opposite effect when it gets above 21°C (70°F) inside. We don’t like that.
Ideally, we would have air conditioning, but that is probably something that is expensive to maintain and also requires high investments for a 220m² (2,370 sq ft) house. On the other hand, I have heard that some heating systems (heat pumps) have an integrated cooling function. However, I doubt that this is exactly the same as air conditioning.
You mention that individual room control is unnecessary. Could you explain that in more detail? Our house with the rented apartment is only a few years old, but each room has a thermostat where you can adjust settings room by room. Is that outdated? In the scenario you describe, would there only be thermostats but no controllers in the rooms? Or not even thermostats anymore? Is it possible to design the underfloor heating so that you have 23°C (73°F) in the bathroom, 18°C (64°F) in the bedroom, 21°C (70°F) in other rooms, and 20°C (68°F) in the kitchen? That would be very problematic for resale because it is such an individual setup.
Additional components would definitely be too expensive for us. Since the warming up is still bearable, we are more bothered by the opposite effect when it gets above 21°C (70°F) inside. We don’t like that.
Ideally, we would have air conditioning, but that is probably something that is expensive to maintain and also requires high investments for a 220m² (2,370 sq ft) house. On the other hand, I have heard that some heating systems (heat pumps) have an integrated cooling function. However, I doubt that this is exactly the same as air conditioning.
You mention that individual room control is unnecessary. Could you explain that in more detail? Our house with the rented apartment is only a few years old, but each room has a thermostat where you can adjust settings room by room. Is that outdated? In the scenario you describe, would there only be thermostats but no controllers in the rooms? Or not even thermostats anymore? Is it possible to design the underfloor heating so that you have 23°C (73°F) in the bathroom, 18°C (64°F) in the bedroom, 21°C (70°F) in other rooms, and 20°C (68°F) in the kitchen? That would be very problematic for resale because it is such an individual setup.
I am reading all of this with great interest because we will soon have our first-ever underfloor heating system. So far, we have always used radiators with Danfoss thermostats, setting them to three at noon, down to one at bedtime, and the bedroom thermostat on star mode, and it was never stuffy or too warm. We’ll see... hopefully, I won’t regret choosing underfloor heating. Karsten
Sascha_aus_H5 Jun 2017 11:23I don’t understand your problem with the delay or why you are getting 23.5°C (74.3°F).
A radiant floor heating system should have a delay of no more than 3-4 hours, which is acceptable. Immediate heating is difficult because the floor heating only reaches the desired temperature after 3-4 hours. Additionally, the supply temperature is low, so the heating process is slow.
But when it comes to "overheating," it’s actually quite manageable. The heating system detects high outdoor temperatures and therefore switches off the indoor heating early.
This can be controlled with smart home components like KNX or Homematic, but any reasonable heating system can already be programmed to work this way.
If someone experiences the issues mentioned here with their radiant floor heating, they either have a poorly planned/designed system or it has been incorrectly configured.
A radiant floor heating system should have a delay of no more than 3-4 hours, which is acceptable. Immediate heating is difficult because the floor heating only reaches the desired temperature after 3-4 hours. Additionally, the supply temperature is low, so the heating process is slow.
But when it comes to "overheating," it’s actually quite manageable. The heating system detects high outdoor temperatures and therefore switches off the indoor heating early.
This can be controlled with smart home components like KNX or Homematic, but any reasonable heating system can already be programmed to work this way.
If someone experiences the issues mentioned here with their radiant floor heating, they either have a poorly planned/designed system or it has been incorrectly configured.
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