Hello everyone,
I know this question has been asked a million times, but I’m starting to get a bit desperate. We finally have a beautiful plot of land and could fulfill our dream.
Brief overview:
Plot: 760m² (8,180 sq ft), slight slope (1.5m (5 feet) drop over 30m (98 feet)), bordering public roads to the north and west, neighbor properties to the east and south.
House: about 160m² (1,722 sq ft), with a bay window in the living room increasing the space to 180m² (1,938 sq ft) + basement, knee wall about 90cm (35 inches) with a 43-48° pitched roof.
Total budget (excluding the land): approx. 700,000€ (100,000 basement, 100,000 additional construction costs, 500,000 house)
Prefabricated house?
I used to be quite sure that a prefabricated house was the right choice. But after visiting a few manufacturers, I really don’t know anymore – absolutely uncertain.
Most prefab companies disqualified themselves early on, leaving us with only two to consider. Right after the first appointment, the manufacturer I had been following for years (Bien-Zenker) also disqualified themselves – especially surprising since we know two families who built successfully and are quite satisfied there.
For those interested in some details:
For us, a basement was always a must, but instead of respecting this wish, we had to justify it multiple times. Why? Well, if we save on the basement and invest more in the house, the commission is bigger – also, the basement at this manufacturer is subcontracted externally. Not a good basis for trust, in my opinion.
We also want a Smart Home with a manufacturer-independent KNX system, whereas we kept being offered the closed standard system of one single manufacturer... Even though we came with a rough floor plan sketch, we were just given a catalogue to pick a floor plan from – supposedly as a starting point. These are just a few examples.
Others have repeatedly caught our attention with unprofessional bait offers promoting non-existing building plots and trying to get us to sign a contract before mediation (once we fell for it but canceled with a lawyer’s help) or bombarded us with at least three emails per week after expressing interest – pretty desperate, if you ask me...
So, solid construction instead?
On the other hand, the choice of companies for solid (masonry/concrete) houses seems quite limited here. One wanted payment right after the second appointment (without architectural planning or anything), another simply doesn’t respond (after referring me to info@... during a two-minute phone call). When asking acquaintances who have built solid houses, the response is always the same: “Please don’t use ours – it was a disaster,” including walls that aren’t even 90° or cables running straight through windows...
The last two remaining companies (both building single-family homes) are very closely linked, use the same subcontractors and architect, and share staff among each other. We inquired with one of them, and this was the only one who at least took some time on the phone with us but wanted us to have a soil report done immediately, even though we don’t yet know where exactly on the plot the house or basement will be located – doesn’t really make sense.
Also, their costs seem quite high at about 3,000 to 3,500€ per m² (about $275 to $320 per sq ft) without basement, KNX, LAN wiring, or any other extras included (our comparison for prefab was between 2,500 and 2,800€ per m² (about $230 to $260), including basement and LAN), so with the 180m² (1,938 sq ft) we probably won’t make it...
So, prefab house after all?
Today we had the appointment with the second and last prefabricated house manufacturer on our shortlist (tada: Schwörerhaus), and the initial conversation left a good impression. A basement is no problem with Schwörerhaus since it comes from their own production and doesn’t affect the commission.
However, we were told that no electrical wiring is installed in the basement (or only at an unaffordable extra cost) and it’s best to do that yourself during a certain phase of construction. They suggested simply coming to the site on weekends (when no one is there) and doing it yourself – the tools would be provided after a brief arrangement. Uh-huh... Do you get that in writing? No. Is that professional? Doesn’t sound like it!
Also, the model house seems very noisy (this is also reported online), although they say with a 6,000€ (about $6,500) impact sound insulation it is supposed to be very different – but you can’t really verify that. When our little one jumped in the upstairs kid’s room, even the wardrobe shook and a lamp downstairs rattled.
The air heating system with ventilation and heat exchanger initially seemed convincing, although I don’t really know much about it and was already advised against it since air doesn’t absorb much energy. Also, the outlets are heated additionally with an “electric heater” – is that efficient? I simply don’t know...
The biggest blow came at the end when we were told that the house could only be completed in at least two years. Apparently, a certain planning review by the architect would take nine months (3 months planning, 1 month for building permit/planning permission, 9 months for this weird review, around 8 months manufacturing, then the finishing work). What happened to prefab houses being quicker?! Sounds odd and they wouldn’t or couldn’t explain further. Anyone who can build faster “is rather unreliable, might go bankrupt during construction and just needs the money.” Strange that you find much shorter timelines online – even from Schwörerhaus.
Besides the fact that this doesn’t fit our plans at all (our little one starts school in 1.5 years and we are moving 30km (19 miles) away – September next year would be ideal), it will also be tricky with financing. While only 10% is required for planning and the remaining 90% on completion and handover, you either take out a loan early and pay provisioning fees for such a long period, or you take the risk of not knowing how interest rates will develop over the next two years.
There are also many questions that no one really wants to answer:
Can you use air heating with a solid house too, or is underfloor heating more sensible? Can you achieve a KfW standard (German energy efficiency rating) and under which conditions/costs? Apparently, nobody knows much about KNX, etc.
The most helpful was a phone call with an architect who strongly recommends solid construction (due to local providers and higher flexibility) but is also involved with planning commissions from the two closely linked solid building companies, so his objectivity is somewhat questionable. He was also annoyed that we don’t want to align the garage flush with the neighbor’s property line, as it is supposed to be attached directly to the house and the boundary runs at a slight angle, meaning our house would stand crooked on the plot with a lot of wasted space. “But garages are ALWAYS built flush with the boundary” – phew...
Are we going about this the wrong way? Unfortunately, I don’t have anyone to discuss this with, and I’m starting to feel like I’m stuck choosing between the lesser of two evils. Of course, problems always occur when building and not everything ever runs smoothly – no question. And of course, many tough decisions have to be made. But I didn’t expect the very beginning to be this exhausting.
I’m very grateful for any tips, clarifications, advice, or anything else, as right now we keep going in circles and making no progress. Maybe you just have to roll the dice and hope for the best?!
Best regards,
Daniel
I know this question has been asked a million times, but I’m starting to get a bit desperate. We finally have a beautiful plot of land and could fulfill our dream.
Brief overview:
Plot: 760m² (8,180 sq ft), slight slope (1.5m (5 feet) drop over 30m (98 feet)), bordering public roads to the north and west, neighbor properties to the east and south.
House: about 160m² (1,722 sq ft), with a bay window in the living room increasing the space to 180m² (1,938 sq ft) + basement, knee wall about 90cm (35 inches) with a 43-48° pitched roof.
Total budget (excluding the land): approx. 700,000€ (100,000 basement, 100,000 additional construction costs, 500,000 house)
Prefabricated house?
I used to be quite sure that a prefabricated house was the right choice. But after visiting a few manufacturers, I really don’t know anymore – absolutely uncertain.
Most prefab companies disqualified themselves early on, leaving us with only two to consider. Right after the first appointment, the manufacturer I had been following for years (Bien-Zenker) also disqualified themselves – especially surprising since we know two families who built successfully and are quite satisfied there.
For those interested in some details:
For us, a basement was always a must, but instead of respecting this wish, we had to justify it multiple times. Why? Well, if we save on the basement and invest more in the house, the commission is bigger – also, the basement at this manufacturer is subcontracted externally. Not a good basis for trust, in my opinion.
We also want a Smart Home with a manufacturer-independent KNX system, whereas we kept being offered the closed standard system of one single manufacturer... Even though we came with a rough floor plan sketch, we were just given a catalogue to pick a floor plan from – supposedly as a starting point. These are just a few examples.
Others have repeatedly caught our attention with unprofessional bait offers promoting non-existing building plots and trying to get us to sign a contract before mediation (once we fell for it but canceled with a lawyer’s help) or bombarded us with at least three emails per week after expressing interest – pretty desperate, if you ask me...
So, solid construction instead?
On the other hand, the choice of companies for solid (masonry/concrete) houses seems quite limited here. One wanted payment right after the second appointment (without architectural planning or anything), another simply doesn’t respond (after referring me to info@... during a two-minute phone call). When asking acquaintances who have built solid houses, the response is always the same: “Please don’t use ours – it was a disaster,” including walls that aren’t even 90° or cables running straight through windows...
The last two remaining companies (both building single-family homes) are very closely linked, use the same subcontractors and architect, and share staff among each other. We inquired with one of them, and this was the only one who at least took some time on the phone with us but wanted us to have a soil report done immediately, even though we don’t yet know where exactly on the plot the house or basement will be located – doesn’t really make sense.
Also, their costs seem quite high at about 3,000 to 3,500€ per m² (about $275 to $320 per sq ft) without basement, KNX, LAN wiring, or any other extras included (our comparison for prefab was between 2,500 and 2,800€ per m² (about $230 to $260), including basement and LAN), so with the 180m² (1,938 sq ft) we probably won’t make it...
So, prefab house after all?
Today we had the appointment with the second and last prefabricated house manufacturer on our shortlist (tada: Schwörerhaus), and the initial conversation left a good impression. A basement is no problem with Schwörerhaus since it comes from their own production and doesn’t affect the commission.
However, we were told that no electrical wiring is installed in the basement (or only at an unaffordable extra cost) and it’s best to do that yourself during a certain phase of construction. They suggested simply coming to the site on weekends (when no one is there) and doing it yourself – the tools would be provided after a brief arrangement. Uh-huh... Do you get that in writing? No. Is that professional? Doesn’t sound like it!
Also, the model house seems very noisy (this is also reported online), although they say with a 6,000€ (about $6,500) impact sound insulation it is supposed to be very different – but you can’t really verify that. When our little one jumped in the upstairs kid’s room, even the wardrobe shook and a lamp downstairs rattled.
The air heating system with ventilation and heat exchanger initially seemed convincing, although I don’t really know much about it and was already advised against it since air doesn’t absorb much energy. Also, the outlets are heated additionally with an “electric heater” – is that efficient? I simply don’t know...
The biggest blow came at the end when we were told that the house could only be completed in at least two years. Apparently, a certain planning review by the architect would take nine months (3 months planning, 1 month for building permit/planning permission, 9 months for this weird review, around 8 months manufacturing, then the finishing work). What happened to prefab houses being quicker?! Sounds odd and they wouldn’t or couldn’t explain further. Anyone who can build faster “is rather unreliable, might go bankrupt during construction and just needs the money.” Strange that you find much shorter timelines online – even from Schwörerhaus.
Besides the fact that this doesn’t fit our plans at all (our little one starts school in 1.5 years and we are moving 30km (19 miles) away – September next year would be ideal), it will also be tricky with financing. While only 10% is required for planning and the remaining 90% on completion and handover, you either take out a loan early and pay provisioning fees for such a long period, or you take the risk of not knowing how interest rates will develop over the next two years.
There are also many questions that no one really wants to answer:
Can you use air heating with a solid house too, or is underfloor heating more sensible? Can you achieve a KfW standard (German energy efficiency rating) and under which conditions/costs? Apparently, nobody knows much about KNX, etc.
The most helpful was a phone call with an architect who strongly recommends solid construction (due to local providers and higher flexibility) but is also involved with planning commissions from the two closely linked solid building companies, so his objectivity is somewhat questionable. He was also annoyed that we don’t want to align the garage flush with the neighbor’s property line, as it is supposed to be attached directly to the house and the boundary runs at a slight angle, meaning our house would stand crooked on the plot with a lot of wasted space. “But garages are ALWAYS built flush with the boundary” – phew...
Are we going about this the wrong way? Unfortunately, I don’t have anyone to discuss this with, and I’m starting to feel like I’m stuck choosing between the lesser of two evils. Of course, problems always occur when building and not everything ever runs smoothly – no question. And of course, many tough decisions have to be made. But I didn’t expect the very beginning to be this exhausting.
I’m very grateful for any tips, clarifications, advice, or anything else, as right now we keep going in circles and making no progress. Maybe you just have to roll the dice and hope for the best?!
Best regards,
Daniel
P
Pinkiponk30 Jul 2024 11:19Questie schrieb:
Plot: 760m² (8,180 sq ft), slight slope (1.5m (5 feet) drop over 30m (98 feet)), bordering public roads to the north and west, and neighboring properties to the east and south.How and with whom did your neighbors build?
Maybe this is a minor detail in your case, but we didn’t consider it in our building project and luckily didn’t encounter any issues.
Our construction manager recently told us about another homeowner who chose a prefabricated timber frame house from his company, located on a sloped site. The problem was that, even though the roads seemed “normal” to laypeople, the large trucks carrying the house components couldn’t reach the plot. As a result, a transfer area had to be found some distance from the site, which then had to be rented with all the necessary permits and safety measures in place (including from the city). The house parts were then transferred by crane onto smaller trucks, driven to the plot, and craned into place again. It was possible, but the additional costs and time delay were the responsibility of the homeowner. Neither the buyers nor the seller had thought about this when signing the purchase contract for the prefabricated house.
--> So here is my perhaps unnecessary tip: when reviewing the scope of work, which you might want to have checked by a professional (as we did), make sure that any prefabricated house components can actually be delivered and unloaded at your plot. Usually, the scope of work will specify the type of trucks and load sizes that must be able to access your site. It also makes sense to drive the main access route to your plot with this in mind.
If my comment is irrelevant, please just ignore it, but the experience of other homeowners really caught my attention. As non-professionals in our cars, we often assume roads are adequate, unless they are in small Italian villages or similar.
P
Pinkiponk30 Jul 2024 12:13Questie schrieb:
...After the summer holidays, there will be a few building trade fairs again. You might find something useful there. Since you want to build in Günzburg, the Heim+Handwerk 2024 in Munich could be helpful. Or there might be other building trade fairs in your region. You have probably already attended the Günzburg Construction Industry Days, if they are still taking place. I’m not very familiar with the local area.I have been quietly reading along and have a few tips for you:
- Write down what is truly important to you and what isn’t. Some questions that might help: Could you possibly do without a basement? If not, do you really need a pantry? Wouldn’t a large kitchen with lots of storage be better than a small kitchen and a small pantry? Could you give up the projector and live with just a TV? When you get older, wouldn’t a stairlift (which you can still install in 40 years) be enough? What else do you want to do with the upper floor when you are older?
If you have clarity on these points, you can enter discussions much better prepared and be more flexible in responding to the builder’s options. If you want everything 100% exactly as you imagine from the start, you will have to plan and organize everything yourself, which usually doesn’t leave much time. There is no such thing as a 100% perfect house unless you are a multimillionaire.
- Try to learn something from every conversation. Every craftsman, salesperson, planner, etc., has their own opinions and experiences. Take the useful parts and ignore the negative. There will always be salespeople who say nonsense; that’s part of the job and happens in every industry.
- Budget closer to €3,500 per square meter (about $365 per square foot). We moved in at the end of December and that’s roughly what we ended up spending. We definitely didn’t build luxuriously, but this project seems very important to you, and you will add quite a bit during selection. Larger tiles, oak stair treads, lift-and-slide doors, etc., are what we allowed ourselves.
- Landscaping costs are, excuse my language, ridiculously expensive, and we only have a 350m² (3,770 sq ft) plot without a slope. Your plot is twice as big and with a hillside, you can sink quite a bit of money into that. Twenty meters (about 65 feet) of retaining wall blocks can already cost around €2,000 (with installation). You will definitely need quite a few of those.
- Don’t try to do everything at once. Get acquainted with one topic (e.g., heating), absorb the information, and make sensible decisions for you. Narrow it down to 2-3 options and rank them for yourself. Then tick off the house connection panel and move on to the next topic. You can easily cover 1-2 topics over a weekend this way. No one can remember everything at once, and much will be forgotten later. Besides, life goes on—you have work and other responsibilities.
- Many general contractors (GCs) have sample floor plans. Take a look at them; maybe you’ll find something you like. From there, you can make your adjustments. This is usually easier than starting to plan completely on your own, especially since most things don’t occur to amateurs.
- Ask people you know why they wouldn’t build again with their GC. Maybe their reasons are minor things that wouldn’t bother you much.
A little anecdote: In our building area, a couple kept complaining about the landscaping company. We had the same one and no issues. In the end, it was just a communication problem, and the couple had been quite rude to him. When you communicate on equal footing and just listen, it’s usually no problem.
I also notice many people only visit the construction site once every 1-2 weeks, don’t check in, and later complain about mistakes happening. I was there (almost) every day, measured everything after each trade, checked against the plans, and thought things through again. Potential mistakes become apparent earlier, and you can react immediately. That’s how we got through construction very smoothly without any major conflicts. Had I not done that, some problems would have only been noticed upon moving in.
It also helps to genuinely listen to the craftsmen or ask in an interested way how what they are doing works—naturally sincerely and without being annoying. You always learn something, and they appreciate that someone takes an interest in their work. Afterwards, you understand and can assess the entire trade much better.
Most people skip this and think they are ordering a house like buying a new car from a factory. But it’s not like that. Every house is unique, and craftsmen and construction managers work on hundreds of sites in their careers. For them, it’s just another project to check this week. For you, it’s your one house in a lifetime. You will notice very different things.
With a bit of humility and willingness to learn, many projects would probably run more smoothly.
- Lastly, check which general contractors banks in your area work with. Large banks often have real estate divisions that offer new builds. They have the most experience in your region and probably don’t work with unreliable contractors.
- Write down what is truly important to you and what isn’t. Some questions that might help: Could you possibly do without a basement? If not, do you really need a pantry? Wouldn’t a large kitchen with lots of storage be better than a small kitchen and a small pantry? Could you give up the projector and live with just a TV? When you get older, wouldn’t a stairlift (which you can still install in 40 years) be enough? What else do you want to do with the upper floor when you are older?
If you have clarity on these points, you can enter discussions much better prepared and be more flexible in responding to the builder’s options. If you want everything 100% exactly as you imagine from the start, you will have to plan and organize everything yourself, which usually doesn’t leave much time. There is no such thing as a 100% perfect house unless you are a multimillionaire.
- Try to learn something from every conversation. Every craftsman, salesperson, planner, etc., has their own opinions and experiences. Take the useful parts and ignore the negative. There will always be salespeople who say nonsense; that’s part of the job and happens in every industry.
- Budget closer to €3,500 per square meter (about $365 per square foot). We moved in at the end of December and that’s roughly what we ended up spending. We definitely didn’t build luxuriously, but this project seems very important to you, and you will add quite a bit during selection. Larger tiles, oak stair treads, lift-and-slide doors, etc., are what we allowed ourselves.
- Landscaping costs are, excuse my language, ridiculously expensive, and we only have a 350m² (3,770 sq ft) plot without a slope. Your plot is twice as big and with a hillside, you can sink quite a bit of money into that. Twenty meters (about 65 feet) of retaining wall blocks can already cost around €2,000 (with installation). You will definitely need quite a few of those.
- Don’t try to do everything at once. Get acquainted with one topic (e.g., heating), absorb the information, and make sensible decisions for you. Narrow it down to 2-3 options and rank them for yourself. Then tick off the house connection panel and move on to the next topic. You can easily cover 1-2 topics over a weekend this way. No one can remember everything at once, and much will be forgotten later. Besides, life goes on—you have work and other responsibilities.
- Many general contractors (GCs) have sample floor plans. Take a look at them; maybe you’ll find something you like. From there, you can make your adjustments. This is usually easier than starting to plan completely on your own, especially since most things don’t occur to amateurs.
- Ask people you know why they wouldn’t build again with their GC. Maybe their reasons are minor things that wouldn’t bother you much.
A little anecdote: In our building area, a couple kept complaining about the landscaping company. We had the same one and no issues. In the end, it was just a communication problem, and the couple had been quite rude to him. When you communicate on equal footing and just listen, it’s usually no problem.
I also notice many people only visit the construction site once every 1-2 weeks, don’t check in, and later complain about mistakes happening. I was there (almost) every day, measured everything after each trade, checked against the plans, and thought things through again. Potential mistakes become apparent earlier, and you can react immediately. That’s how we got through construction very smoothly without any major conflicts. Had I not done that, some problems would have only been noticed upon moving in.
It also helps to genuinely listen to the craftsmen or ask in an interested way how what they are doing works—naturally sincerely and without being annoying. You always learn something, and they appreciate that someone takes an interest in their work. Afterwards, you understand and can assess the entire trade much better.
Most people skip this and think they are ordering a house like buying a new car from a factory. But it’s not like that. Every house is unique, and craftsmen and construction managers work on hundreds of sites in their careers. For them, it’s just another project to check this week. For you, it’s your one house in a lifetime. You will notice very different things.
With a bit of humility and willingness to learn, many projects would probably run more smoothly.
- Lastly, check which general contractors banks in your area work with. Large banks often have real estate divisions that offer new builds. They have the most experience in your region and probably don’t work with unreliable contractors.
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