Hello everyone,
Please don’t take this thread too seriously – but I’m curious to see where the discussion goes.
I’m about to build a single-family house with 1.5 stories, including private and commercial space, around 150 m² (1,615 sq ft) just for myself.
When the plan started to take shape, it was clear to me – of course Flo is going to do smart home, being tech-savvy, formerly working in IT, and naturally wanting everything connected and automated, because that’s what you need these days.
And it would be silly not to include smart home features in a new build in 2022, whether you actually need them or not.
So I looked into it and especially the costs.
$20,000 plus normal electricity costs (whether KNX or Loxone) are no small expense, so I decided to first see what a smart home really can do and whether I even want it.
Ventilation control – NO (I don’t have ventilation)
Shutter control – NO (I don’t need to control it from anywhere in the world)
Window open/close – NO (window motors alone are too expensive)
Alarm system – NO (I don’t have one)
Door intercom – YES, but this is covered by the intercom provider, and since I’m alone, the app is enough for me.
Weather sensors – NO
Mailbox – YES, that would be cool: like having a display at the entrance and a sensor in the mailbox so you don’t always have to open the door.
Surveillance cameras – YES, but those are covered by the camera provider.
Heat pump / photovoltaics / underfloor heating monitoring and control – YES, that would be nice, but does it justify the cost?
Switchable sockets – YES, that would actually be the first thing I really want.
Lighting control – NO for scenes. YES for motion detectors and different brightness levels for day and night.
So I came to the conclusion: no real smart home, I’ll wire everything conventionally.
Hallway, bathroom, utility room, guest toilet, pantry will have motion sensors, but without adjusted lighting levels – that’s about all I can do.
Now, feel free to share your thoughts. As I said, I’ve more or less given up on the topic.
But if anyone has an intermediate solution, I would still appreciate hearing about it.
Best regards
Flo
Please don’t take this thread too seriously – but I’m curious to see where the discussion goes.
I’m about to build a single-family house with 1.5 stories, including private and commercial space, around 150 m² (1,615 sq ft) just for myself.
When the plan started to take shape, it was clear to me – of course Flo is going to do smart home, being tech-savvy, formerly working in IT, and naturally wanting everything connected and automated, because that’s what you need these days.
And it would be silly not to include smart home features in a new build in 2022, whether you actually need them or not.
So I looked into it and especially the costs.
$20,000 plus normal electricity costs (whether KNX or Loxone) are no small expense, so I decided to first see what a smart home really can do and whether I even want it.
Ventilation control – NO (I don’t have ventilation)
Shutter control – NO (I don’t need to control it from anywhere in the world)
Window open/close – NO (window motors alone are too expensive)
Alarm system – NO (I don’t have one)
Door intercom – YES, but this is covered by the intercom provider, and since I’m alone, the app is enough for me.
Weather sensors – NO
Mailbox – YES, that would be cool: like having a display at the entrance and a sensor in the mailbox so you don’t always have to open the door.
Surveillance cameras – YES, but those are covered by the camera provider.
Heat pump / photovoltaics / underfloor heating monitoring and control – YES, that would be nice, but does it justify the cost?
Switchable sockets – YES, that would actually be the first thing I really want.
Lighting control – NO for scenes. YES for motion detectors and different brightness levels for day and night.
So I came to the conclusion: no real smart home, I’ll wire everything conventionally.
Hallway, bathroom, utility room, guest toilet, pantry will have motion sensors, but without adjusted lighting levels – that’s about all I can do.
Now, feel free to share your thoughts. As I said, I’ve more or less given up on the topic.
But if anyone has an intermediate solution, I would still appreciate hearing about it.
Best regards
Flo
nullhorn schrieb:
I’d say, if it costs 5,000 more than "standard" electrical work, then I’ll do it, You need to develop a proper plan, or work with someone who knows the subject well. “Standard electrical work” and smart home systems are two completely different things. I already mentioned this earlier. Although there are many manufacturers trying to make something out of existing installations by selling customers boxes that supposedly turn houses into smart homes, most of them fail—or rather, don’t even start—when it comes to HVAC integration.
nullhorn schrieb:
What I basically meant was that maybe you can do some smart home parts yourself as part of the electrical work (like wiring, for example) You can do a lot more yourself, such as sourcing the devices and handling the configuration. That way, the electrician basically only needs to connect everything and then power up the system.
Of course, you need to find an electrician who is willing to cooperate.
@Mycraft already mentioned it: IT professionals are biased. But why the comparison always involves established systems like KNX and Loxone instead of a fine open-source system (OpenHAB ...) alongside traditional electrical installations and smart home setups is beyond me.
The wiring for all smart home systems is similar; a bus system requires slightly fewer cables than a pure star topology wiring like we have. But that’s beside the point. After about 4 months in a mostly self-built and wired house with some smart features added, I can only say: OpenHAB works great. Gradually, a few more extras are being added (various sensors with options for long-term data logging, smaller programs like adjusting the slats of the blinds to a desired angle, for example 90°. Naturally, based on the blinds’ position (timing when fully open or closed ;-) and many other things. Especially as an IT professional, my advice is: do it yourself. Wiring is easy, programming initially moderately difficult, then getting easier and easier. Above all, you understand how everything works and don’t have to call a system integrator if you want to add, change, or replace something. Of course, bus push buttons (KNX/Loxone components) can also be integrated, but it’s not mandatory. I just wanted to throw that option into the discussion, not start a religious debate :p
The wiring for all smart home systems is similar; a bus system requires slightly fewer cables than a pure star topology wiring like we have. But that’s beside the point. After about 4 months in a mostly self-built and wired house with some smart features added, I can only say: OpenHAB works great. Gradually, a few more extras are being added (various sensors with options for long-term data logging, smaller programs like adjusting the slats of the blinds to a desired angle, for example 90°. Naturally, based on the blinds’ position (timing when fully open or closed ;-) and many other things. Especially as an IT professional, my advice is: do it yourself. Wiring is easy, programming initially moderately difficult, then getting easier and easier. Above all, you understand how everything works and don’t have to call a system integrator if you want to add, change, or replace something. Of course, bus push buttons (KNX/Loxone components) can also be integrated, but it’s not mandatory. I just wanted to throw that option into the discussion, not start a religious debate :p
@i_b_n_a_n For IT professionals, it is not an either-or situation. They simply pick the best solution from everywhere, especially since they can integrate it themselves anyway. If you have to choose just one system that the electrician will install, then KNX is the most comprehensive.
i_b_n_a_n schrieb:
I don’t understand why a fine open-source system (OpenHAB ...) is used for comparison with conventional electrical installations and smart home solutions. That’s because OpenHAB is just a small part of the whole system. A smart home is not only about the top-layer software but also includes the field level and everything in between.
If you only install OpenHAB in your home, it’s like placing a voice assistant in an unprepared house. It will more or less just serve as a paperweight.
The reality is this: before considering the higher levels and automations (OpenHAB, Home Assistant, home servers, and other comparable platforms), you first need to establish the infrastructure that will actually be controlled and feed these software platforms with information and data from local sources.
That’s why when discussing a smart home, the focus is initially on wiring, sensors, actuators, etc., and the software framework comes much later, near the end of the process. Therefore, it’s more or less pointless to discuss the software as long as it’s unclear what exactly needs to be controlled and managed.
A
allstar8311 Feb 2022 10:26i_b_n_a_n schrieb:
But why is it that established systems like KNX and Loxone are always used for comparison with conventional electrical installations and smart homes, instead of a nice open-source system like OpenHAB...? I have no idea. Well, why do many electricians prefer Loxone? They can quickly plan everything in the software, generate a parts list and order it, install it, and have it configured automatically. It’s quite well thought out.