Hi,
I’m still undecided about installing home automation in our planned new build.
My requirements are as follows:
- Control of roller shutters or blinds (possibly window contacts to detect open windows)
- Control of heating / air source heat pump or solar system
- Control of a video intercom system via a tablet
Of course, I have looked into KNX and the material costs alone would be around 6000€ (approximately 6,350 USD). As an alternative, Loxone is mentioned increasingly often, although the proprietary format is a bit off-putting.
My requirements could also be met with a manufacturer-specific system.
Do you have any recommendations for or against home automation (in my case)?
Best regards
Acd85
I’m still undecided about installing home automation in our planned new build.
My requirements are as follows:
- Control of roller shutters or blinds (possibly window contacts to detect open windows)
- Control of heating / air source heat pump or solar system
- Control of a video intercom system via a tablet
Of course, I have looked into KNX and the material costs alone would be around 6000€ (approximately 6,350 USD). As an alternative, Loxone is mentioned increasingly often, although the proprietary format is a bit off-putting.
My requirements could also be met with a manufacturer-specific system.
Do you have any recommendations for or against home automation (in my case)?
Best regards
Acd85
So the Raspberry Pi you are using is not a DIY solution? And if you are giving examples, they should support your argument.
There have been developments in other areas over the past 5 years as well. And of course you know what you are talking about, but you can be somewhat sharp when it comes to criticism of KNX.
There have been developments in other areas over the past 5 years as well. And of course you know what you are talking about, but you can be somewhat sharp when it comes to criticism of KNX.
The RaspBi has nothing to do with the topic here; I only mentioned it for completeness. As experience shows, if you don’t explain or list everything right away, people later complain, saying things like: "You actually have this and that in the system."
The full quote is:
I simply don’t have a server in the house for the KNX system, except for the RaspBi for the visualization... but even that is just there because I basically got it for free, and instead of letting it gather dust on a shelf, I put the visualization on it.
Before that, the visualization ran just fine without a server on the iPad, and that was sufficient.
This topic is about advice, and I would never recommend the RaspBi, especially since it is a DIY solution. But it was mentioned briefly to provide the full picture.
Yes, I know things have progressed elsewhere too; just look at Z-Wave alone. As I said, I’m not standing still and continuously keep myself informed about developments, not only in the KNX world but beyond.
I only get annoyed when proprietary systems are praised and claimed to handle the same tasks equally well—and much cheaper. They don’t, and you quickly reach the limits of those systems.
The full quote is:
Mycraft schrieb:
So, I don’t have a server in my KNX system (apart from the Raspberry PI, which is responsible for the visualization). All the logic is already handled by the devices themselves, since the actuators can do much more than just on/off. Nowadays, a server is really only necessary for external access or for the visualization; all other logic can easily be managed with the built-in tools.
I simply don’t have a server in the house for the KNX system, except for the RaspBi for the visualization... but even that is just there because I basically got it for free, and instead of letting it gather dust on a shelf, I put the visualization on it.
Before that, the visualization ran just fine without a server on the iPad, and that was sufficient.
This topic is about advice, and I would never recommend the RaspBi, especially since it is a DIY solution. But it was mentioned briefly to provide the full picture.
Yes, I know things have progressed elsewhere too; just look at Z-Wave alone. As I said, I’m not standing still and continuously keep myself informed about developments, not only in the KNX world but beyond.
I only get annoyed when proprietary systems are praised and claimed to handle the same tasks equally well—and much cheaper. They don’t, and you quickly reach the limits of those systems.
I think dwelling on quotes is starting to seem a bit childish!
The moment the solar system or heat pump doesn’t have a KNX module, you probably need a server for that, right @Mycraft? The original poster should just take that into account!
When I look at my Loxone server and see the EIB interface, I don’t quite understand your "limitations." With that, I have visualization, basic setup, and can connect KNX anytime if I ever really hit any limits, which will probably never happen.
The moment the solar system or heat pump doesn’t have a KNX module, you probably need a server for that, right @Mycraft? The original poster should just take that into account!
When I look at my Loxone server and see the EIB interface, I don’t quite understand your "limitations." With that, I have visualization, basic setup, and can connect KNX anytime if I ever really hit any limits, which will probably never happen.
FreakErn schrieb:
The moment the solar system or heat pump doesn’t have a KNX module, you probably need a server for it, right @Mycraft? The original poster should definitely consider this!No, not even then... a simple "KNX to whatever" gateway is enough.
As I mentioned earlier, a server in KNX is necessary for visualization and remote access, and even then only to a limited extent...
You can operate visualization without a server on an iPad/iPhone/Android tablet/Windows PC, etc., and there are also ready-made KNX components for remote access.
A server plays a very minor role in a KNX system... that is actually one of its biggest advantages.
FreakErn schrieb:
When I look at my Loxone server and see the EIB interface, I don’t quite understand your "limitations". I have visualization, basic setup, and can connect KNX anytime if I really hit limits, which probably will never happen.If you planned to run the bus cable from your Loxone server everywhere, then the limitations are a bit larger. But the average Loxone user usually doesn’t do this, since they chose Loxone specifically because they didn’t want KNX. In that case, the limits of the EIB interface are relatively narrow and usually end within the room where the server is located. Of course, you can use the IP network for longer distances (room-to-room / floor-to-floor), but that quickly becomes a much bigger budget factor.
And are you sure you’ve thought of everything during construction? I was constantly modifying my system in the early days, and every year new things were added because nothing is set in stone and furniture sometimes gets rearranged.
With conventional electrical systems or proprietary systems, for example, you can’t place something on a specific wall because there’s a light switch there. With KNX or other comparable flexible systems—no problem at all.
To get the thread back on track for advice:
Since our planning is currently at a complete standstill due to issues with the building permit / planning permission, and actual progress won't start until next year at the earliest, I have now decided to take a closer look at the topic of bus systems.
Contrary to what I said a few pages ago, I have decided to go with KNX. Simply because it works reliably and is really widespread. The security of having many manufacturers behind it is important to me. I’m not looking to start a debate about which system is best—that’s something everyone should decide for themselves.
Since a bus system can definitely impact the budget quite a bit, I’ve decided to contribute a lot of the work myself. Our current budget plan does not include any DIY work, so I feel confident taking this on. My plan is to create a basic project plan (room schedule) in the next few weeks, then discuss my ideas with an electrician.
I want to do as much as possible of the chasing (wall grooves), installing conduits, and pulling cables myself. I also feel confident handling simple connections like outlets (I’ve done that several times before). The electrician will guide and support me but will do the critical wiring—especially in the distribution board. I will try to handle the programming myself. I have taken a course on the e-campus and tested the software a bit.
To work in a structured way, I have now bought the book “Home Automation with KNX, Dali, 1-Wire and More” and will work through it step by step.
I am really still a beginner but already quite impressed with the book.
For now, I am planning:
Shutter/blind/awning control
Lighting (This is currently my biggest challenge—I have no clue how it all works yet)
Outlets (with proper wiring, these can easily be made switchable later)
Ventilation
Heating (is it necessary with underfloor heating with low water temperature?)
Things like visualization and remote control are not important to me at this point and probably not feasible within our budget. I simply want to wire as much as possible sensibly to be prepared for the future.
At the moment, I’m still pretty green and a bit worried that I might be in over my head. But as they say, you grow with your tasks.
Do you think we can realize this plan, or am I making a critical mistake in our planning?
Since our planning is currently at a complete standstill due to issues with the building permit / planning permission, and actual progress won't start until next year at the earliest, I have now decided to take a closer look at the topic of bus systems.
Contrary to what I said a few pages ago, I have decided to go with KNX. Simply because it works reliably and is really widespread. The security of having many manufacturers behind it is important to me. I’m not looking to start a debate about which system is best—that’s something everyone should decide for themselves.
Since a bus system can definitely impact the budget quite a bit, I’ve decided to contribute a lot of the work myself. Our current budget plan does not include any DIY work, so I feel confident taking this on. My plan is to create a basic project plan (room schedule) in the next few weeks, then discuss my ideas with an electrician.
I want to do as much as possible of the chasing (wall grooves), installing conduits, and pulling cables myself. I also feel confident handling simple connections like outlets (I’ve done that several times before). The electrician will guide and support me but will do the critical wiring—especially in the distribution board. I will try to handle the programming myself. I have taken a course on the e-campus and tested the software a bit.
To work in a structured way, I have now bought the book “Home Automation with KNX, Dali, 1-Wire and More” and will work through it step by step.
I am really still a beginner but already quite impressed with the book.
For now, I am planning:
Shutter/blind/awning control
Lighting (This is currently my biggest challenge—I have no clue how it all works yet)
Outlets (with proper wiring, these can easily be made switchable later)
Ventilation
Heating (is it necessary with underfloor heating with low water temperature?)
Things like visualization and remote control are not important to me at this point and probably not feasible within our budget. I simply want to wire as much as possible sensibly to be prepared for the future.
At the moment, I’m still pretty green and a bit worried that I might be in over my head. But as they say, you grow with your tasks.
Do you think we can realize this plan, or am I making a critical mistake in our planning?
Hello Matte,
Since you still have some time, I do believe this will work. Planning is crucial for a KNX installation. Because the wiring forms the foundation of everything, you should definitely create a room schedule. Then consider the placement of switches, sockets, presence detectors, etc. Based on the room schedule, you can make a rough budget estimate of the sensors/actuators you will need. There is also a very good forum for this. Just search for KNX and User.
Depending on how many sensors you want to install, it might also be worth considering 1-Wire. Although it is a second bus system, there are very affordable sensors available for it. For the visualization, there are plenty of options, including many low-cost or free solutions that are very flexible and well supported. I was also undecided for a long time between Loxone and KNX, and because of the costs, I was about to cancel everything. In the end, I decided to go with a KNX system. I also bought the book, which I found quite helpful.
I would just advise not to go overboard by wiring every socket individually back to the distribution board. You need to think carefully about where it makes sense to have a switchable socket. Then run a 5 x 1.5 mm² (5 x 16 AWG) cable there, which gives you the option to make several sockets switchable without things getting out of hand. Of course, there are many exciting gadgets with KNX, and the possibilities are almost endless. We will see what actually gets implemented in the end.
In my case, the first phase will only include roller shutters, lighting, and radiator thermostats, because I didn't want those ugly room thermostats. I will also rely heavily on presence detectors. For basic switches, I will be using the MDT Glastaster SMART II. Regarding lighting, the important question is whether you want dimming capability or not; otherwise, it’s quite simple to handle with a switching actuator.
Best regards,
Thomas
Since you still have some time, I do believe this will work. Planning is crucial for a KNX installation. Because the wiring forms the foundation of everything, you should definitely create a room schedule. Then consider the placement of switches, sockets, presence detectors, etc. Based on the room schedule, you can make a rough budget estimate of the sensors/actuators you will need. There is also a very good forum for this. Just search for KNX and User.
Depending on how many sensors you want to install, it might also be worth considering 1-Wire. Although it is a second bus system, there are very affordable sensors available for it. For the visualization, there are plenty of options, including many low-cost or free solutions that are very flexible and well supported. I was also undecided for a long time between Loxone and KNX, and because of the costs, I was about to cancel everything. In the end, I decided to go with a KNX system. I also bought the book, which I found quite helpful.
I would just advise not to go overboard by wiring every socket individually back to the distribution board. You need to think carefully about where it makes sense to have a switchable socket. Then run a 5 x 1.5 mm² (5 x 16 AWG) cable there, which gives you the option to make several sockets switchable without things getting out of hand. Of course, there are many exciting gadgets with KNX, and the possibilities are almost endless. We will see what actually gets implemented in the end.
In my case, the first phase will only include roller shutters, lighting, and radiator thermostats, because I didn't want those ugly room thermostats. I will also rely heavily on presence detectors. For basic switches, I will be using the MDT Glastaster SMART II. Regarding lighting, the important question is whether you want dimming capability or not; otherwise, it’s quite simple to handle with a switching actuator.
Best regards,
Thomas