Hello dear forum community,
After visiting several construction companies, the question of the optimal facade system has come up for me—specifically, what are the pros and cons of the different options?
First of all, the goal is to at least meet the KfW55 standard. A simple online search yields the usual advantages and disadvantages of all materials, but I would like to rely on the community’s arguments and experiences. The focus is explicitly not on aesthetic factors like “brick looks much nicer” or similar, but rather on practical experience, risks, and useful information about the different materials.
- In the single-layer category, I have so far only seen a Poroton facade (T7 MW, T8), which at 36.5 cm (14 inches) is quite narrow and is usually finished with an external render or optionally brick veneer.
- For double-layer systems, I was typically shown a naturally thicker facade consisting of aerated concrete, mineral wool insulation, and brick cladding. What we definitely want to avoid is polystyrene insulation.
I realize it’s hard to say that one option is clearly better than the other, but please be so kind as to share your personal opinion and feel free to explain your reasons.
Have a nice evening!
Regards, Rafael
After visiting several construction companies, the question of the optimal facade system has come up for me—specifically, what are the pros and cons of the different options?
First of all, the goal is to at least meet the KfW55 standard. A simple online search yields the usual advantages and disadvantages of all materials, but I would like to rely on the community’s arguments and experiences. The focus is explicitly not on aesthetic factors like “brick looks much nicer” or similar, but rather on practical experience, risks, and useful information about the different materials.
- In the single-layer category, I have so far only seen a Poroton facade (T7 MW, T8), which at 36.5 cm (14 inches) is quite narrow and is usually finished with an external render or optionally brick veneer.
- For double-layer systems, I was typically shown a naturally thicker facade consisting of aerated concrete, mineral wool insulation, and brick cladding. What we definitely want to avoid is polystyrene insulation.
I realize it’s hard to say that one option is clearly better than the other, but please be so kind as to share your personal opinion and feel free to explain your reasons.
Have a nice evening!
Regards, Rafael
B
Bieber081519 Jan 2017 23:06TobiasW. schrieb:
A small amount can be absorbed by the plaster and transferred to the underlying backup wall. Thanks to the ventilation gap, any resulting condensation can then drain away. Walls do not breathe. I find the last sentence completely unrealistic, as there will never be enough moisture diffusing from the inside to the outside to form condensation there.
TobiasW. schrieb:
The mortar needed for fixation is applied only in strips on the sides and in the middle. Condensation would form behind it and, over time, lead to significant mold growth. Has such mold actually been documented under real conditions? Any online sources are fine, links can be sent by private message if necessary (the forum requires this) ;-)
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Knallkörper20 Jan 2017 07:13He didn’t mention anything about breathing. However, moisture transport (capillary action) through the interior wall definitely occurs. Cavity wall construction with cavity insulation has a dew point on the inner surface of the outer shell, where the condensation described by Tobias forms.
@Knallkörper: THANK YOU! It’s always the same people who keep focusing on this issue. I’m not going to provide web links discussing the problems with mold and external thermal insulation composite systems (ETICS) here. There is plenty of material available, and honestly, I prefer real-world evidence—experiences from people who actually work with these materials. Most professionals in the industry would never be honest with the end customer because there is an incredible amount of money to be made! That’s why I truly appreciate honest craftsmen who have a “conscience.”
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nightdancer21 Jan 2017 10:42TobiasW. schrieb:
@Bieber0815: A few days ago, I spoke with a master painter who said that conventional ETICS (external thermal insulation composite systems) are, from his perspective, a disaster. He claimed that the mortar used for fixing is only applied in strips along the edges and in the middle. According to him, this causes condensation to form behind it, leading over time to severe mold growth.
ETICS panels are either attached to the façade using the bead-and-spot method or fully adhered over the entire surface. If this is done carelessly or poorly, back-ventilation and condensation can occur, which may then cause mold. If your painter followed the generally recognized rules of technology (aRdT), no damage would happen. But it’s interesting that you consider a building amateur as an expert......
Of course, construction defects can occur due to improper installation... But that doesn't apply only to ETICS (External Thermal Insulation Composite Systems)... It applies to almost everything... If you search for construction defects in cavity wall masonry, you will also find a wide range of examples... Does that mean it’s bad? Definitely not, only when poorly executed...
And the fact that you find many links on the internet... Oh man, that reminds me of our former chancellor: "The internet is new territory for all of us..." You can find construction defects online for any imaginable building system...
I agree with you that cavity walls are the highest quality, but the idea that you notice something in the indoor climate or that other construction methods generally cause defects... That’s just nonsense...
And the fact that you find many links on the internet... Oh man, that reminds me of our former chancellor: "The internet is new territory for all of us..." You can find construction defects online for any imaginable building system...
I agree with you that cavity walls are the highest quality, but the idea that you notice something in the indoor climate or that other construction methods generally cause defects... That’s just nonsense...
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