ᐅ Single-family house in Bauhaus style with 180 m² living area and double garage
Created on: 2 Aug 2019 20:39
N
Notstrom
Hello everyone,
after reading quietly for a long time, here comes my first post – I really need your opinions and advice now. Warning: This will be quite comprehensive, the number of questions just doesn’t get any smaller.
We (my wife, our child, and potentially another child in the future) are going to buy a plot of land from a municipality in southern Baden (notary appointment on 14.08.).
The plot is 530m² (5705 sq ft) and is quite "free" in terms of building regulations, meaning roof shapes and such are very open.
So, here is our idea:
- We want a single-family house (Bauhaus style) with a living area of 180m² (don’t ask why 180m² (1938 sq ft); it was just a number that has become more and more fixed…) no luxury fixtures, smart home only at a basic level if at all, a tiled stove, two children’s rooms, possibly a ventilation system, heat pump… How much living space do we actually need? Our research hasn’t made this clear to us…
- We also want a basement primarily for storage and house technology – later expansion for a hobby room/office is possible but not planned initially.
- A double garage (or alternatively a single garage and a carport) will round off the “hard facts.”
- Energy efficiency: Good question – we would like to do “something,” but that something would be closer to KfW 55 standard rather than KfW 40 plus.
- Budget: We had always aimed around the magic number of half a million euros, but reality caught up with us. So, we adjusted our budget as follows:
- The plot costs 150,000 EUR, the architects’ current estimates (+/- 15% deviation, but they assured us this is a conservative estimate and likely the upper limit) range between 550,000 EUR and 650,000 EUR (excluding own work but including all additional services).
Therefore, our maximum budget for the entire project is set at 800,000 EUR, including the plot, the house with all additional services, and about 50,000 EUR for kitchen and so forth.
- We plan own work only for the “usual” things like flooring, possibly painting, and the garden.
- Through my father’s network, we know some craftsmen he has worked with in his former business (self-employed in landscaping), so, for example, we get the excavation for the foundation at a lower cost.
- We had contact for a long time with a large, well-known prefab house builder – timber-based – but after seeing the price, we decided against it (note: we once lived in a timber-frame apartment building, which was a nightmare, so we were somewhat prejudiced regarding timber construction).
- So far, we have been in contact with four architects. One was removed due to price (about 20% more expensive than the other two), and another did not convince us, so we are left with two. (After reducing our shortlist to two, a third architect was recommended, who we met for coffee, but he was disorganized, his office was a mess, so we didn’t pursue that further.)
- With the two remaining architects, we agreed to get back to them at the beginning of next week with our decision.
- Meanwhile, the Association of Private Homeowners informed us in their welcome email that cost estimates in the model with architect and individual trades may be exceeded by 30 to 40%.
- We are a bit confused now because we respect the price framework, and the potential 15% deviation on 600,000 - 650,000 EUR (i.e., between 90,000 EUR - 100,000 EUR, which is no small amount) worries us.
What do you think about all this? Is the cost estimate (details below) realistic? Realistically on the high side? Should we perhaps go for a general contractor after all? Do you know any? (Is it even allowed to speak about names here?)
As mentioned above, here is the rough cost estimate we received from our architect number 1:
*: All prices excluding tax
a) Building – Construction: 371,500
b) Building – Technical systems: 100,000
- Heating: 26,000
- Sanitary installations: 25,000
- Ventilation system: 14,000
- Electrical: 30,000
- Wastewater lift pump: 5,000
c) Additional building costs: 79,000
- Architect including drainage planning: 55,000 (we preliminarily agreed on 60,000 gross, including tax)
- Structural engineer: 7,500
- Energy consultant: 1,200
- Surveyor: 1,500
- Soil investigation report: 1,000
- Permit fees: 3,800
- Sewage connection development: 200
- Electrical connection, telecom connection, cable connection, water connection: 4,500
- Construction power supply: 1,300
- Other auxiliary costs/fees: 2,000
This brings us to about 550,000 net plus 19% VAT = 655,000 EUR.
What do you think? Is this justified? Overplanned? Conservative? Too expensive?
Should we opt for a general contractor to gain “planning security”?
Thanks a lot in advance for reading and for your advice.
after reading quietly for a long time, here comes my first post – I really need your opinions and advice now. Warning: This will be quite comprehensive, the number of questions just doesn’t get any smaller.
We (my wife, our child, and potentially another child in the future) are going to buy a plot of land from a municipality in southern Baden (notary appointment on 14.08.).
The plot is 530m² (5705 sq ft) and is quite "free" in terms of building regulations, meaning roof shapes and such are very open.
So, here is our idea:
- We want a single-family house (Bauhaus style) with a living area of 180m² (don’t ask why 180m² (1938 sq ft); it was just a number that has become more and more fixed…) no luxury fixtures, smart home only at a basic level if at all, a tiled stove, two children’s rooms, possibly a ventilation system, heat pump… How much living space do we actually need? Our research hasn’t made this clear to us…
- We also want a basement primarily for storage and house technology – later expansion for a hobby room/office is possible but not planned initially.
- A double garage (or alternatively a single garage and a carport) will round off the “hard facts.”
- Energy efficiency: Good question – we would like to do “something,” but that something would be closer to KfW 55 standard rather than KfW 40 plus.
- Budget: We had always aimed around the magic number of half a million euros, but reality caught up with us. So, we adjusted our budget as follows:
- The plot costs 150,000 EUR, the architects’ current estimates (+/- 15% deviation, but they assured us this is a conservative estimate and likely the upper limit) range between 550,000 EUR and 650,000 EUR (excluding own work but including all additional services).
Therefore, our maximum budget for the entire project is set at 800,000 EUR, including the plot, the house with all additional services, and about 50,000 EUR for kitchen and so forth.
- We plan own work only for the “usual” things like flooring, possibly painting, and the garden.
- Through my father’s network, we know some craftsmen he has worked with in his former business (self-employed in landscaping), so, for example, we get the excavation for the foundation at a lower cost.
- We had contact for a long time with a large, well-known prefab house builder – timber-based – but after seeing the price, we decided against it (note: we once lived in a timber-frame apartment building, which was a nightmare, so we were somewhat prejudiced regarding timber construction).
- So far, we have been in contact with four architects. One was removed due to price (about 20% more expensive than the other two), and another did not convince us, so we are left with two. (After reducing our shortlist to two, a third architect was recommended, who we met for coffee, but he was disorganized, his office was a mess, so we didn’t pursue that further.)
- With the two remaining architects, we agreed to get back to them at the beginning of next week with our decision.
- Meanwhile, the Association of Private Homeowners informed us in their welcome email that cost estimates in the model with architect and individual trades may be exceeded by 30 to 40%.
- We are a bit confused now because we respect the price framework, and the potential 15% deviation on 600,000 - 650,000 EUR (i.e., between 90,000 EUR - 100,000 EUR, which is no small amount) worries us.
What do you think about all this? Is the cost estimate (details below) realistic? Realistically on the high side? Should we perhaps go for a general contractor after all? Do you know any? (Is it even allowed to speak about names here?)
As mentioned above, here is the rough cost estimate we received from our architect number 1:
*: All prices excluding tax
a) Building – Construction: 371,500
- Shell construction: 170,000
- Carpentry, roof construction: 65,000
- Scaffolding: 5,000
- Interior & exterior plaster: 30,000
- Tiling work: 13,000
- Screed: 8,500
- Interior doors: 5,000
- Metalwork: 7,000
- Window installation: 40,000
- Painting: 8,000
- Flooring work: 5,000
- Drywall construction: 15,000
b) Building – Technical systems: 100,000
- Heating: 26,000
- Sanitary installations: 25,000
- Ventilation system: 14,000
- Electrical: 30,000
- Wastewater lift pump: 5,000
c) Additional building costs: 79,000
- Architect including drainage planning: 55,000 (we preliminarily agreed on 60,000 gross, including tax)
- Structural engineer: 7,500
- Energy consultant: 1,200
- Surveyor: 1,500
- Soil investigation report: 1,000
- Permit fees: 3,800
- Sewage connection development: 200
- Electrical connection, telecom connection, cable connection, water connection: 4,500
- Construction power supply: 1,300
- Other auxiliary costs/fees: 2,000
This brings us to about 550,000 net plus 19% VAT = 655,000 EUR.
What do you think? Is this justified? Overplanned? Conservative? Too expensive?
Should we opt for a general contractor to gain “planning security”?
Thanks a lot in advance for reading and for your advice.
Update:
We mutually agreed to part ways with Architect 1 over the weekend, despite having given a handshake commitment. The main issue was a lack of connection between us. It felt like he had just "given up" on planning our house. It was not a collaborative relationship.
So, we moved on to Architect 2 – the one who provided the initial designs – and are now working hard with them. The chemistry is completely different – great, engaged people. The first designs, including the floor plans, will be shared in the subforum.
We mutually agreed to part ways with Architect 1 over the weekend, despite having given a handshake commitment. The main issue was a lack of connection between us. It felt like he had just "given up" on planning our house. It was not a collaborative relationship.
So, we moved on to Architect 2 – the one who provided the initial designs – and are now working hard with them. The chemistry is completely different – great, engaged people. The first designs, including the floor plans, will be shared in the subforum.
DASI90 schrieb:
If we're talking about southern Baden, I assume you mean around Freiburg? Finding a general contractor nearby seems to be quite a challenge there. In the Palatinate region, there's a general contractor we've heard good things about. However, they were hesitant to travel "just" 25 km (15.5 miles) across the Rhine.
What kind of heat pump system are you planning to use? Even though this post is a few days old, I would like to ask which general contractor from the Palatinate you are referring to?
Hello everyone,
The struggle continues. After reviewing the floor plans, we have come to the conclusion that it makes no sense to continue working with the current architect, as none of the designs met our requirements or had significant flaws.
We just received an invoice from the architect for 13,200.00 EUR. He accepts the termination of the contract, even though he does not fully understand the reasons. He intends to charge us his fees incurred so far based on our verbal flat-fee agreement (55,000 EUR).
Is this legally justified? In my opinion: a) there was no written offer, b) no signed contract acceptance, and c) all designs did not meet our expectations; we had to request numerous revisions, yet the quality remained poor. I suspect this might be a tactic.
What is your opinion? What is the legal situation?
The struggle continues. After reviewing the floor plans, we have come to the conclusion that it makes no sense to continue working with the current architect, as none of the designs met our requirements or had significant flaws.
We just received an invoice from the architect for 13,200.00 EUR. He accepts the termination of the contract, even though he does not fully understand the reasons. He intends to charge us his fees incurred so far based on our verbal flat-fee agreement (55,000 EUR).
Is this legally justified? In my opinion: a) there was no written offer, b) no signed contract acceptance, and c) all designs did not meet our expectations; we had to request numerous revisions, yet the quality remained poor. I suspect this might be a tactic.
What is your opinion? What is the legal situation?
The legal situation is complicated; neither option a), b), nor c) is particularly advantageous for you.
He probably invoices roughly for phases 1-3 of the service, depending on whether the 55,000€ was meant with or without tax, so it could be slightly more or less.
Has he actually delivered the services? He definitely created designs.
Basically, he is obligated to make an effort, meaning functional designs, but not necessarily guaranteed success, which in your case would mean satisfaction with the designs.
I would classify the invoice for now as a kind of defensive reaction—that is, he wants you to continue working with him.
If you definitely do not want to do that, in my opinion there are two options.
a) Transfer an amount X (which you consider justified, for example 5,000€ (around 5,500 USD)) and inform him that in your opinion this corresponds to the effort made to produce designs to your satisfaction.
In 95% of cases, he will accept the money and leave you alone; maybe he will also go to court.
b) Pay nothing and wait for a letter from a lawyer or court. The result will most likely be a settlement here as well, but with significantly more effort and back-and-forth involved.
Do you see no possibility at all to find common ground with the architect?
He probably invoices roughly for phases 1-3 of the service, depending on whether the 55,000€ was meant with or without tax, so it could be slightly more or less.
Has he actually delivered the services? He definitely created designs.
Basically, he is obligated to make an effort, meaning functional designs, but not necessarily guaranteed success, which in your case would mean satisfaction with the designs.
I would classify the invoice for now as a kind of defensive reaction—that is, he wants you to continue working with him.
If you definitely do not want to do that, in my opinion there are two options.
a) Transfer an amount X (which you consider justified, for example 5,000€ (around 5,500 USD)) and inform him that in your opinion this corresponds to the effort made to produce designs to your satisfaction.
In 95% of cases, he will accept the money and leave you alone; maybe he will also go to court.
b) Pay nothing and wait for a letter from a lawyer or court. The result will most likely be a settlement here as well, but with significantly more effort and back-and-forth involved.
Do you see no possibility at all to find common ground with the architect?
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