ᐅ Single-family house in Bauhaus style with 180 m² living area and double garage
Created on: 2 Aug 2019 20:39
N
Notstrom
Hello everyone,
after reading quietly for a long time, here comes my first post – I really need your opinions and advice now. Warning: This will be quite comprehensive, the number of questions just doesn’t get any smaller.
We (my wife, our child, and potentially another child in the future) are going to buy a plot of land from a municipality in southern Baden (notary appointment on 14.08.).
The plot is 530m² (5705 sq ft) and is quite "free" in terms of building regulations, meaning roof shapes and such are very open.
So, here is our idea:
- We want a single-family house (Bauhaus style) with a living area of 180m² (don’t ask why 180m² (1938 sq ft); it was just a number that has become more and more fixed…) no luxury fixtures, smart home only at a basic level if at all, a tiled stove, two children’s rooms, possibly a ventilation system, heat pump… How much living space do we actually need? Our research hasn’t made this clear to us…
- We also want a basement primarily for storage and house technology – later expansion for a hobby room/office is possible but not planned initially.
- A double garage (or alternatively a single garage and a carport) will round off the “hard facts.”
- Energy efficiency: Good question – we would like to do “something,” but that something would be closer to KfW 55 standard rather than KfW 40 plus.
- Budget: We had always aimed around the magic number of half a million euros, but reality caught up with us. So, we adjusted our budget as follows:
- The plot costs 150,000 EUR, the architects’ current estimates (+/- 15% deviation, but they assured us this is a conservative estimate and likely the upper limit) range between 550,000 EUR and 650,000 EUR (excluding own work but including all additional services).
Therefore, our maximum budget for the entire project is set at 800,000 EUR, including the plot, the house with all additional services, and about 50,000 EUR for kitchen and so forth.
- We plan own work only for the “usual” things like flooring, possibly painting, and the garden.
- Through my father’s network, we know some craftsmen he has worked with in his former business (self-employed in landscaping), so, for example, we get the excavation for the foundation at a lower cost.
- We had contact for a long time with a large, well-known prefab house builder – timber-based – but after seeing the price, we decided against it (note: we once lived in a timber-frame apartment building, which was a nightmare, so we were somewhat prejudiced regarding timber construction).
- So far, we have been in contact with four architects. One was removed due to price (about 20% more expensive than the other two), and another did not convince us, so we are left with two. (After reducing our shortlist to two, a third architect was recommended, who we met for coffee, but he was disorganized, his office was a mess, so we didn’t pursue that further.)
- With the two remaining architects, we agreed to get back to them at the beginning of next week with our decision.
- Meanwhile, the Association of Private Homeowners informed us in their welcome email that cost estimates in the model with architect and individual trades may be exceeded by 30 to 40%.
- We are a bit confused now because we respect the price framework, and the potential 15% deviation on 600,000 - 650,000 EUR (i.e., between 90,000 EUR - 100,000 EUR, which is no small amount) worries us.
What do you think about all this? Is the cost estimate (details below) realistic? Realistically on the high side? Should we perhaps go for a general contractor after all? Do you know any? (Is it even allowed to speak about names here?)
As mentioned above, here is the rough cost estimate we received from our architect number 1:
*: All prices excluding tax
a) Building – Construction: 371,500
b) Building – Technical systems: 100,000
- Heating: 26,000
- Sanitary installations: 25,000
- Ventilation system: 14,000
- Electrical: 30,000
- Wastewater lift pump: 5,000
c) Additional building costs: 79,000
- Architect including drainage planning: 55,000 (we preliminarily agreed on 60,000 gross, including tax)
- Structural engineer: 7,500
- Energy consultant: 1,200
- Surveyor: 1,500
- Soil investigation report: 1,000
- Permit fees: 3,800
- Sewage connection development: 200
- Electrical connection, telecom connection, cable connection, water connection: 4,500
- Construction power supply: 1,300
- Other auxiliary costs/fees: 2,000
This brings us to about 550,000 net plus 19% VAT = 655,000 EUR.
What do you think? Is this justified? Overplanned? Conservative? Too expensive?
Should we opt for a general contractor to gain “planning security”?
Thanks a lot in advance for reading and for your advice.
after reading quietly for a long time, here comes my first post – I really need your opinions and advice now. Warning: This will be quite comprehensive, the number of questions just doesn’t get any smaller.
We (my wife, our child, and potentially another child in the future) are going to buy a plot of land from a municipality in southern Baden (notary appointment on 14.08.).
The plot is 530m² (5705 sq ft) and is quite "free" in terms of building regulations, meaning roof shapes and such are very open.
So, here is our idea:
- We want a single-family house (Bauhaus style) with a living area of 180m² (don’t ask why 180m² (1938 sq ft); it was just a number that has become more and more fixed…) no luxury fixtures, smart home only at a basic level if at all, a tiled stove, two children’s rooms, possibly a ventilation system, heat pump… How much living space do we actually need? Our research hasn’t made this clear to us…
- We also want a basement primarily for storage and house technology – later expansion for a hobby room/office is possible but not planned initially.
- A double garage (or alternatively a single garage and a carport) will round off the “hard facts.”
- Energy efficiency: Good question – we would like to do “something,” but that something would be closer to KfW 55 standard rather than KfW 40 plus.
- Budget: We had always aimed around the magic number of half a million euros, but reality caught up with us. So, we adjusted our budget as follows:
- The plot costs 150,000 EUR, the architects’ current estimates (+/- 15% deviation, but they assured us this is a conservative estimate and likely the upper limit) range between 550,000 EUR and 650,000 EUR (excluding own work but including all additional services).
Therefore, our maximum budget for the entire project is set at 800,000 EUR, including the plot, the house with all additional services, and about 50,000 EUR for kitchen and so forth.
- We plan own work only for the “usual” things like flooring, possibly painting, and the garden.
- Through my father’s network, we know some craftsmen he has worked with in his former business (self-employed in landscaping), so, for example, we get the excavation for the foundation at a lower cost.
- We had contact for a long time with a large, well-known prefab house builder – timber-based – but after seeing the price, we decided against it (note: we once lived in a timber-frame apartment building, which was a nightmare, so we were somewhat prejudiced regarding timber construction).
- So far, we have been in contact with four architects. One was removed due to price (about 20% more expensive than the other two), and another did not convince us, so we are left with two. (After reducing our shortlist to two, a third architect was recommended, who we met for coffee, but he was disorganized, his office was a mess, so we didn’t pursue that further.)
- With the two remaining architects, we agreed to get back to them at the beginning of next week with our decision.
- Meanwhile, the Association of Private Homeowners informed us in their welcome email that cost estimates in the model with architect and individual trades may be exceeded by 30 to 40%.
- We are a bit confused now because we respect the price framework, and the potential 15% deviation on 600,000 - 650,000 EUR (i.e., between 90,000 EUR - 100,000 EUR, which is no small amount) worries us.
What do you think about all this? Is the cost estimate (details below) realistic? Realistically on the high side? Should we perhaps go for a general contractor after all? Do you know any? (Is it even allowed to speak about names here?)
As mentioned above, here is the rough cost estimate we received from our architect number 1:
*: All prices excluding tax
a) Building – Construction: 371,500
- Shell construction: 170,000
- Carpentry, roof construction: 65,000
- Scaffolding: 5,000
- Interior & exterior plaster: 30,000
- Tiling work: 13,000
- Screed: 8,500
- Interior doors: 5,000
- Metalwork: 7,000
- Window installation: 40,000
- Painting: 8,000
- Flooring work: 5,000
- Drywall construction: 15,000
b) Building – Technical systems: 100,000
- Heating: 26,000
- Sanitary installations: 25,000
- Ventilation system: 14,000
- Electrical: 30,000
- Wastewater lift pump: 5,000
c) Additional building costs: 79,000
- Architect including drainage planning: 55,000 (we preliminarily agreed on 60,000 gross, including tax)
- Structural engineer: 7,500
- Energy consultant: 1,200
- Surveyor: 1,500
- Soil investigation report: 1,000
- Permit fees: 3,800
- Sewage connection development: 200
- Electrical connection, telecom connection, cable connection, water connection: 4,500
- Construction power supply: 1,300
- Other auxiliary costs/fees: 2,000
This brings us to about 550,000 net plus 19% VAT = 655,000 EUR.
What do you think? Is this justified? Overplanned? Conservative? Too expensive?
Should we opt for a general contractor to gain “planning security”?
Thanks a lot in advance for reading and for your advice.
Notstrom schrieb:
Hi, so the architect’s fee calculation is as follows:
The offer also includes the following
That’s a hefty amount! Is that gross or net? With such a fee, the expectations are incredibly high! That’s something you have to live up to first.I wasn’t willing to pay that and still managed to complete the basement within 8.5 months without any issues or construction defects using my individual subcontractors.
After deducting my flat rate for design phases 1-4, the fee is roughly the same size as my entire plumbing trade! Wow... think of all the things you could do with that money...
As mentioned, we have been in contact with several architects. For the last two architects, we agreed on a fixed fee of 60,000 EUR including taxes. The 60,000 EUR is an average figure. We haven’t found a cheaper option (apart from the one we consider unreliable). One architect quoted 70,000 EUR, and another even around 80,000 EUR.
That’s why I am questioning the topic. However, I believe this is a reasonable, justified price. At least that’s what the fee proposals I currently have suggest...
That’s why I am questioning the topic. However, I believe this is a reasonable, justified price. At least that’s what the fee proposals I currently have suggest...
B
boxandroof5 Aug 2019 12:54Notstrom schrieb:
One more question: The architect mentioned that KfW55 (for example) requires more floor space because of the insulation. Is there a rule of thumb for how much more it might cost compared to, say, 36cm (14 inch) walls? I assume the insulation doesn’t cost that much more, right? Since we plan to heat with a heat pump and also install a ventilation system, isn’t the step to KfW40 plus “only” the addition of photovoltaics on the roof, or am I misunderstanding something? KfW40 has higher insulation requirements compared to KfW55. For KfW40 Plus, in addition to photovoltaics, you also need a battery storage system.
Please do your own research on heat pumps and review the manufacturers’ specifications carefully while questioning other recommendations—search terms like: sizing, no buffer tank, no ERR, BKA, room-by-room heating load calculation.
Additional costs for insulation cannot be generalized. KfW55 would be my minimum standard, regardless of whether you take advantage of the small subsidy for KfW55 or not.
Notstrom schrieb:
Should we choose a general contractor for “planning security” instead? Special construction requests and a lot of personal involvement or contacts (don’t overestimate that) speak in favor of using an architect. Planning security, however, does not. It depends heavily on the architect. I can only share that personally, I would build a standard single-family house with a good general contractor plus a qualified expert, because it offers more planning security, requires significantly less personal time, and the construction process should be relatively clear. But that is just my own experience.
I built in the north with an architect: the result was certainly better/more individual, cost control was more difficult, and I had to spend much more personal time than I had planned. Our architects, however, were only mediocre, and their fees were on a completely different level than yours. I cannot assess southern Germany. From what I hear, direct contract awarding is more difficult there and prefabricated house providers are more competitively priced (than in the north).
If the architect takes over everything, it will cost accordingly. But you absolutely need the certainty that the architect takes care of things reliably and regularly; otherwise, despite the costs, you will have to visit the construction site constantly or be on the phone all the time. You can find this out from up-to-date references.
boxandroof schrieb:
KfW 40 requires higher insulation standards compared to KfW 55. For KfW 40 Plus, in addition to photovoltaics, a battery is needed.
Please research heat pumps yourself and consider the manufacturers’ own specifications while questioning others – Google terms like system sizing, no buffer tank, no ERR, BKA, room-by-room heating load calculation.
Additional costs for insulation cannot be answered in general terms. KfW 55 would be my minimum requirement, regardless of whether you take advantage of the small subsidy for KfW 55 or not.
Special building requests and a lot of self-construction/contacts (please don’t overestimate this) argue in favor of an architect. But not for planning certainty. It depends entirely on the architect. I can only say that personally, I would build a standard single-family house with a good general contractor and a competent expert, because it is more reliable in terms of planning, requires significantly less of your own time, and the construction process should be more or less clear. But that is just my own experience.
I built in the north with an architect: the result was definitely better/more individual, but cost control was more difficult, and I had to invest much more of my own time than planned. However, our architects were only mediocre and the fees were on a completely different level than where you are. I can’t assess southern Germany. From what I’ve read, separate contract awards are more difficult there, and prefab house providers are more competitively priced (cheaper) than in the north.
If the architect takes on everything, it will cost accordingly. But you absolutely need the assurance that the architect consistently and satisfactorily takes care of things, otherwise, despite the cost, you’ll constantly have to visit the site or be on the phone. You can find this out from recent references. Building KfW 40 especially with a basement is quite an undertaking! I’m not an energy consultant, but a waterproofed basement with standard perimeter insulation of 12cm (5 inches) won’t meet that. I believe the U-value of the exterior walls for a KfW 40 house is around 0.17. There’s nothing economical about this anymore. I think you may not realize the strain this will put on your budget.
Regarding the architect’s fee: I assume it’s roughly equivalent to the HOAI fee structure. Yes, that seems quite high to me. However, I’m afraid in urban areas it might be unavoidable if you want to build with an architect and use separate contracts for subcontractors. Whether it’s worth it is a personal decision. In such cases, going with a general contractor (GC) might actually be better... Visit some construction companies, see what they offer, and request a quote. Then you can decide if that’s more cost-effective. If not, I would personally prefer the architect over the GC, but that’s just my preference.
For our project, we paid our architect about 20 percent of your quoted fee from start to finish, meaning from design to completed construction management. In our region, no one follows HOAI, and 90 percent build with an architect and separate contracts (this is the usual approach here, as GCs generally cost more – as I said, things work a bit differently here). Our architect was worth every cent for us. But nearly $60,000 is a whole different level of expense. Of course, our build was in a completely different financial range.
For our project, we paid our architect about 20 percent of your quoted fee from start to finish, meaning from design to completed construction management. In our region, no one follows HOAI, and 90 percent build with an architect and separate contracts (this is the usual approach here, as GCs generally cost more – as I said, things work a bit differently here). Our architect was worth every cent for us. But nearly $60,000 is a whole different level of expense. Of course, our build was in a completely different financial range.
Similar topics