ᐅ Single-family house, 2 stories without a basement – floor plan, costs, feasibility?
Created on: 8 Jul 2014 21:13
M
macpet
Hello Forum,
After a long time of debating whether it makes sense to start a thread without owning land yet, I decided to go ahead and open it. You can’t start early enough. And once the right plot is found, the process might move a bit faster.
A brief introduction: We are a family with two children (daughter, 3 years old; son, 3 months old). We currently live in a small terraced house over three floors with a basement plus an attic accessed by a hatch, a single garage, and a parking space. 125 m² (1,345 sq ft) of living space plus 30 m² (323 sq ft) garden, of which 14 m² (151 sq ft) is paved terrace. This home will serve as our contribution towards the new house. We also have a building savings plan. The budget of 450,000 € all in should not be exceeded, but more details are in the cost overview attached.
Now, about our ideas for the new home.
It should be a house with a simple cubic form, no basement.
I will recover the costs of the basement with a larger footprint and a big garage.
The pantry and the utility/heating room are located on the north side, considered the cold side.
The garage is also positioned on the north side, at the corner.
There should be no skylights, but many fixed windows.
The staircase should be accessible without entering the living area so that the children can reach their rooms later without disturbance.
It should be possible to enter the house via the garage without going outside.
The front door will be on the north side.
There should be two children’s bedrooms arranged apart from the bathroom and master bedroom.
Also, the bathroom should be separated from the children’s rooms to minimize noise.
The bathroom should have a bathtub, toilet, bidet, shower, double washbasin, and an infrared cabin.
Everything should be usable without disturbing others, which is why there is just one bathroom and no separate children’s bathroom that might be unused after the kids move out but still needs cleaning. So one person can shower, another can use the toilet, someone else can be in the infrared cabin, and so on.
All combinations are possible and implemented.
Even practical details like toilet placement near a window or enough light for the different tasks have been considered. The infrared cabin, for example, needs no light because it has internal lighting.
The laundry room, where the washer and dryer stand, should be separated from the living and sleeping areas.
There should be a laundry chute connected to the bathroom, so dirty laundry is neatly stored and dries best in the heating room. Many place washer and dryer upstairs, but where to store and dry laundry then?
So, a large heating room that also functions as a drying room.
Short distances for all utility lines were a goal as well, which is why the heating room is located directly under the bathroom.
The open kitchen is designed with a double L-shape, something I haven’t seen before but find very practical on the plan. You can go from the garage to the pantry with groceries, then take the rest into the kitchen and put the first items directly in the fridge. From the kitchen, you can access the terrace again via the open L—either to the herb garden or to the shady side in the afternoon for coffee.
The two legs of the L are about 1.3 m (4.3 ft) apart so that two or three people can cook without getting under each other’s feet but also without having to walk too far.
The hallway on the ground floor is also not too small and can be accessed directly from the front door or garage, so you can change shoes immediately. You don’t have to walk across the stairway path and risk carrying gravel up the wooden stairs.
The upstairs floors will be mostly oak wood, except the bathroom, which will have tiles. Perhaps the walk-in closet will have a carpet?
The basement is tiled except for the living area in the lounge; the kitchen will definitely be tiled.
Visually, I would prefer wood flooring in the entire living area, but practically that’s not feasible, not even with a Berbel extraction hood. The last 12 years have shown this.
It very much depends on cooking habits. If you only eat there or make occasional coffee, then wood flooring in the kitchen would work.
You can invest a lot of time in the floor plan decisions, but I think it’s worth it.
The staircase also requires careful planning and isn’t always easy to position with all the given dimensions.
Lighting shouldn’t be too sparse, and probably some glass doors will be needed.
I have also avoided large sliding doors in the living room because of the cost.
In the last 12 years, we managed well with our 1 m (3.3 ft) wide terrace door. The rest of the equipment is stored in the big garage.
The window arrangement should also create a harmonious exterior look; I’m a fan of symmetry, even if that’s “the art of the unwise.”
I included a central ventilation system initially but ended up going with a decentralized ventilation system.
You can really overthink or make it complicated here as well.
A wooden house without any ventilation system likely wouldn’t work, while with brick construction it might, but that’s a personal feeling.
I welcome any advice here too, just like for any other part of the planning.
A pellet stove should also be installed in the living area with a water connection.
I made it a load-bearing wall because I see the biggest challenge regarding the structural support of the ceiling above. This wall could also be concrete, as it’s an interior wall—possibly with a steel beam extending outward from the wall. Unfortunately, that’s just a gut feeling at this point.
All sockets, network connections, lights, switches, etc. are already planned.
The lighting upstairs is designed with a pull-cord system, so the visible roof structure can be built at the same cost as a standard roof frame. The electrical setup is also more affordable with this solution, and power consumption is manageable. If more lamps are needed later, simply add them to the system. The selection is huge, from spotlights to ring lights.
The only drawback is that the lamps require occasional dusting.
I could go on about the placement of trash bins, pellets, and so on. I’ve been working on the plans for a while now and hope you notice something I might have missed.
Please share your opinions openly. After all, you only build once, and it’s impossible to do everything perfectly. But if you don’t mess up the major points, you can at least sleep well. Decisions like building without a basement can’t be undone, so everyone needs to decide for themselves.
This is my first post, and I hope it will be enriched for a long time and something useful will come out of it.
Some of my colleagues have built over the last five years using various construction methods, and I’ve witnessed the price increases with a heavy heart. However, exhibitors at trade fairs have repeatedly encouraged me that construction prices will return to a normal level.
It’s nice if you can do some tasks yourself, even simple ones. Labor is the costly part of today’s houses.
Thanks in advance for your replies, critiques, and opinions.
So now I have described the situation a bit and will try to upload some pictures and tables to get many opinions. I will add more images gradually, but this is the start.
After a long time of debating whether it makes sense to start a thread without owning land yet, I decided to go ahead and open it. You can’t start early enough. And once the right plot is found, the process might move a bit faster.
A brief introduction: We are a family with two children (daughter, 3 years old; son, 3 months old). We currently live in a small terraced house over three floors with a basement plus an attic accessed by a hatch, a single garage, and a parking space. 125 m² (1,345 sq ft) of living space plus 30 m² (323 sq ft) garden, of which 14 m² (151 sq ft) is paved terrace. This home will serve as our contribution towards the new house. We also have a building savings plan. The budget of 450,000 € all in should not be exceeded, but more details are in the cost overview attached.
Now, about our ideas for the new home.
It should be a house with a simple cubic form, no basement.
I will recover the costs of the basement with a larger footprint and a big garage.
The pantry and the utility/heating room are located on the north side, considered the cold side.
The garage is also positioned on the north side, at the corner.
There should be no skylights, but many fixed windows.
The staircase should be accessible without entering the living area so that the children can reach their rooms later without disturbance.
It should be possible to enter the house via the garage without going outside.
The front door will be on the north side.
There should be two children’s bedrooms arranged apart from the bathroom and master bedroom.
Also, the bathroom should be separated from the children’s rooms to minimize noise.
The bathroom should have a bathtub, toilet, bidet, shower, double washbasin, and an infrared cabin.
Everything should be usable without disturbing others, which is why there is just one bathroom and no separate children’s bathroom that might be unused after the kids move out but still needs cleaning. So one person can shower, another can use the toilet, someone else can be in the infrared cabin, and so on.
All combinations are possible and implemented.
Even practical details like toilet placement near a window or enough light for the different tasks have been considered. The infrared cabin, for example, needs no light because it has internal lighting.
The laundry room, where the washer and dryer stand, should be separated from the living and sleeping areas.
There should be a laundry chute connected to the bathroom, so dirty laundry is neatly stored and dries best in the heating room. Many place washer and dryer upstairs, but where to store and dry laundry then?
So, a large heating room that also functions as a drying room.
Short distances for all utility lines were a goal as well, which is why the heating room is located directly under the bathroom.
The open kitchen is designed with a double L-shape, something I haven’t seen before but find very practical on the plan. You can go from the garage to the pantry with groceries, then take the rest into the kitchen and put the first items directly in the fridge. From the kitchen, you can access the terrace again via the open L—either to the herb garden or to the shady side in the afternoon for coffee.
The two legs of the L are about 1.3 m (4.3 ft) apart so that two or three people can cook without getting under each other’s feet but also without having to walk too far.
The hallway on the ground floor is also not too small and can be accessed directly from the front door or garage, so you can change shoes immediately. You don’t have to walk across the stairway path and risk carrying gravel up the wooden stairs.
The upstairs floors will be mostly oak wood, except the bathroom, which will have tiles. Perhaps the walk-in closet will have a carpet?
The basement is tiled except for the living area in the lounge; the kitchen will definitely be tiled.
Visually, I would prefer wood flooring in the entire living area, but practically that’s not feasible, not even with a Berbel extraction hood. The last 12 years have shown this.
It very much depends on cooking habits. If you only eat there or make occasional coffee, then wood flooring in the kitchen would work.
You can invest a lot of time in the floor plan decisions, but I think it’s worth it.
The staircase also requires careful planning and isn’t always easy to position with all the given dimensions.
Lighting shouldn’t be too sparse, and probably some glass doors will be needed.
I have also avoided large sliding doors in the living room because of the cost.
In the last 12 years, we managed well with our 1 m (3.3 ft) wide terrace door. The rest of the equipment is stored in the big garage.
The window arrangement should also create a harmonious exterior look; I’m a fan of symmetry, even if that’s “the art of the unwise.”
I included a central ventilation system initially but ended up going with a decentralized ventilation system.
You can really overthink or make it complicated here as well.
A wooden house without any ventilation system likely wouldn’t work, while with brick construction it might, but that’s a personal feeling.
I welcome any advice here too, just like for any other part of the planning.
A pellet stove should also be installed in the living area with a water connection.
I made it a load-bearing wall because I see the biggest challenge regarding the structural support of the ceiling above. This wall could also be concrete, as it’s an interior wall—possibly with a steel beam extending outward from the wall. Unfortunately, that’s just a gut feeling at this point.
All sockets, network connections, lights, switches, etc. are already planned.
The lighting upstairs is designed with a pull-cord system, so the visible roof structure can be built at the same cost as a standard roof frame. The electrical setup is also more affordable with this solution, and power consumption is manageable. If more lamps are needed later, simply add them to the system. The selection is huge, from spotlights to ring lights.
The only drawback is that the lamps require occasional dusting.
I could go on about the placement of trash bins, pellets, and so on. I’ve been working on the plans for a while now and hope you notice something I might have missed.
Please share your opinions openly. After all, you only build once, and it’s impossible to do everything perfectly. But if you don’t mess up the major points, you can at least sleep well. Decisions like building without a basement can’t be undone, so everyone needs to decide for themselves.
This is my first post, and I hope it will be enriched for a long time and something useful will come out of it.
Some of my colleagues have built over the last five years using various construction methods, and I’ve witnessed the price increases with a heavy heart. However, exhibitors at trade fairs have repeatedly encouraged me that construction prices will return to a normal level.
It’s nice if you can do some tasks yourself, even simple ones. Labor is the costly part of today’s houses.
Thanks in advance for your replies, critiques, and opinions.
So now I have described the situation a bit and will try to upload some pictures and tables to get many opinions. I will add more images gradually, but this is the start.
Hello Bauherren 2014,
Okay, I understand that. I’m not sure if the budget item will be sufficient, but at least it sounds more plausible.
Regarding the planning: I fully understand you. We also spent a lot of time beforehand clarifying what we want and what we don’t. However, with such a very detailed floor plan already in place, I feel you might be focusing too much on details while some fundamental aspects are still missing. Many people make the mistake of getting too attached to what they have put on paper (or into the computer) and become unwilling to consider new and possibly better ideas.
I think you can’t be too detailed when it comes to making sure you don’t forget important things. You can always remove details later, but now they’re already included. I’m always open to better ideas and not resistant to advice. I’ve repeatedly reviewed our current living situation and found many shortcomings. Once something is on paper, it’s harder to forget about it. For example: you want a compost heap but don’t account for a brown bin. Then you can’t adapt the compost heap to the location, and suddenly there’s no space for two waste bins. I’d rather plan for two waste bins, well ventilated in the garage and inaccessible to animals, and if only one is needed, I’m happy to have the extra space. A garage for two cars — who really needs that when they get older? But maybe the kids, future owners, or someone else will appreciate it, and who even needs a car at all? Changing the design or starting something completely new won’t take as long as the first draft. Many parts are already in place now.
Thanks so far.
Okay, I understand that. I’m not sure if the budget item will be sufficient, but at least it sounds more plausible.
Regarding the planning: I fully understand you. We also spent a lot of time beforehand clarifying what we want and what we don’t. However, with such a very detailed floor plan already in place, I feel you might be focusing too much on details while some fundamental aspects are still missing. Many people make the mistake of getting too attached to what they have put on paper (or into the computer) and become unwilling to consider new and possibly better ideas.
I think you can’t be too detailed when it comes to making sure you don’t forget important things. You can always remove details later, but now they’re already included. I’m always open to better ideas and not resistant to advice. I’ve repeatedly reviewed our current living situation and found many shortcomings. Once something is on paper, it’s harder to forget about it. For example: you want a compost heap but don’t account for a brown bin. Then you can’t adapt the compost heap to the location, and suddenly there’s no space for two waste bins. I’d rather plan for two waste bins, well ventilated in the garage and inaccessible to animals, and if only one is needed, I’m happy to have the extra space. A garage for two cars — who really needs that when they get older? But maybe the kids, future owners, or someone else will appreciate it, and who even needs a car at all? Changing the design or starting something completely new won’t take as long as the first draft. Many parts are already in place now.
Thanks so far.
B
Bauherren20149 Jul 2014 15:19I think $15,000 is too low. However, I’m a bit uncertain about the actual costs. We built with a basement, so the expenses are not really comparable. Maybe someone else can add some input on this. Earthworks always depend on the soil conditions. With difficult ground, there can be a significant additional cost.
Regarding the other points:
I already mentioned the surveyor’s cost above. Generally, you should budget around $1,500. It’s best to check Bauexperte’s list of additional costs; the prices are quite realistic.
The building permit / planning permission depends on the federal state and the size/enclosed volume of the house. For us, the costs for the permit and municipal fees were around $800 total. Planning for about $1,000 should be a safe estimate.
The soil survey and heating load calculation also cost us about $1,000 together.
Regarding the other points:
I already mentioned the surveyor’s cost above. Generally, you should budget around $1,500. It’s best to check Bauexperte’s list of additional costs; the prices are quite realistic.
The building permit / planning permission depends on the federal state and the size/enclosed volume of the house. For us, the costs for the permit and municipal fees were around $800 total. Planning for about $1,000 should be a safe estimate.
The soil survey and heating load calculation also cost us about $1,000 together.
B
Bauexperte9 Jul 2014 16:33Hello,
It will not be an inexpensive construction project, that much is certain; even less so in Bavaria than further north.
Single-family house with approximately 200 sqm (2,150 sq ft) of living space:
as a KfW 70 efficiency house including foundation slab and medium standard – around EUR 330,000
Masonry garage with side access via metal stairs and design as a walkable balcony in the smaller annex: about EUR 35,000–40,000
Pellet heating system about EUR 21,000 (pellet boiler, pellet storage and delivery system including installation)
Chimney from ground floor: EUR 4,500
Decentralized ventilation with heat recovery: EUR 5,800
Additional construction costs: EUR 35,000–40,000
Painting work in open plan: EUR 10,000
Flooring in open plan: EUR 10,000
External landscaping in open plan: EUR 10,000
Reserve for extras: EUR 10,000
All in, estimated: EUR 481,300 including architecture/structural engineering and execution plans, but excluding the plot or further extras such as water-heated fireplace, electric blinds, photovoltaic system, kitchen, small items, etc.
From my point of view, this cost breakdown will not really help you, as general contractor/total contractor/intermediate contractors apply different prices and do not disclose their calculations; if you want to go through architects, prices only become concrete when tender documents are available. By the way, in the last case, the costs for architecture/structural engineering and execution planning are significantly underestimated.
As already correctly mentioned, your design is a nice pastime (without even considering the room layout); nothing more. Because it is by no means certain that you will be allowed to build such a high knee wall or the actual footprint on every offered plot. Every city, municipality, or community has its own rules regarding the building envelope, development plan/planning permission, and written regulations; sometimes there is even a design code that takes precedence over the development plan.
Regards, Bauexperte
macpet schrieb:What exactly does that mean?
The bathroom should have an infrared cabin.
macpet schrieb:If it’s planned specifically for the plot and its conditions: yes. Otherwise, not really; I see it as rather counterproductive because I have learned how limiting a fixed-in-the-head room layout can be.
You can spend a lot of time on the floor plan, but I think it’s worth it.
macpet schrieb:And where will the pellet storage be? How is the delivery of the pellets planned?
A pellet stove should also be included in the living area with a water connection.
I have already integrated this as a load-bearing wall in the living area, as I see the biggest challenge with the structural integrity of the ceiling here. The wall can also be cast in concrete, since it’s an interior wall and possibly a steel beam from the wall outwards.
macpet schrieb:Then they probably believe in miracles; I don’t
However, exhibitors at trade fairs have repeatedly encouraged me, saying building costs will return to a normal level.
It will not be an inexpensive construction project, that much is certain; even less so in Bavaria than further north.
Single-family house with approximately 200 sqm (2,150 sq ft) of living space:
as a KfW 70 efficiency house including foundation slab and medium standard – around EUR 330,000
Masonry garage with side access via metal stairs and design as a walkable balcony in the smaller annex: about EUR 35,000–40,000
Pellet heating system about EUR 21,000 (pellet boiler, pellet storage and delivery system including installation)
Chimney from ground floor: EUR 4,500
Decentralized ventilation with heat recovery: EUR 5,800
Additional construction costs: EUR 35,000–40,000
Painting work in open plan: EUR 10,000
Flooring in open plan: EUR 10,000
External landscaping in open plan: EUR 10,000
Reserve for extras: EUR 10,000
All in, estimated: EUR 481,300 including architecture/structural engineering and execution plans, but excluding the plot or further extras such as water-heated fireplace, electric blinds, photovoltaic system, kitchen, small items, etc.
From my point of view, this cost breakdown will not really help you, as general contractor/total contractor/intermediate contractors apply different prices and do not disclose their calculations; if you want to go through architects, prices only become concrete when tender documents are available. By the way, in the last case, the costs for architecture/structural engineering and execution planning are significantly underestimated.
As already correctly mentioned, your design is a nice pastime (without even considering the room layout); nothing more. Because it is by no means certain that you will be allowed to build such a high knee wall or the actual footprint on every offered plot. Every city, municipality, or community has its own rules regarding the building envelope, development plan/planning permission, and written regulations; sometimes there is even a design code that takes precedence over the development plan.
Regards, Bauexperte
Unfortunately, I can hardly make out anything because of the tile coverings and wood in all kinds of variations.
Please upload the floor plan in black and white again.
Regarding advance planning: I have spent 30 years of my life tracing apartments (initially as a child) and later designing dream houses using a program. For plots, I chose building gaps that truly existed, but unfortunately were never for sale.
At first, the houses were in the finca style, later the Bauhaus style.
Now I live happily in our new house, which doesn’t match any of the following: 1. cost, 2. building permit / planning permission, and 3. in real time, you think differently anyway.
Please upload the floor plan in black and white again.
Regarding advance planning: I have spent 30 years of my life tracing apartments (initially as a child) and later designing dream houses using a program. For plots, I chose building gaps that truly existed, but unfortunately were never for sale.
At first, the houses were in the finca style, later the Bauhaus style.
Now I live happily in our new house, which doesn’t match any of the following: 1. cost, 2. building permit / planning permission, and 3. in real time, you think differently anyway.
Hello building expert,
thank you for the detailed response.
Regarding the pellet heating. It is not a heating system, but a stove located in the living area with a 60 kg (132 lbs) tank. It is filled using bagged pellets (15 kg / 33 lbs). Delivery is done on pallets, which are stored in the garage.
So you can exclude the pellet heating from the calculations.
Chimney draft from the ground floor: 4,500 EUR. At trade fairs, I have repeatedly been quoted around 2,700–2,800 EUR. To be safe, I am budgeting 3,000 EUR.
If I distribute the additional percentage for the chimney across all other items, the total for the house comes in well under 400,000 EUR.
However, that is still too much. Either we will go smaller or do something completely different.
Hopefully, the plot will be finalized soon so we can start requesting quotes from construction companies.
The heating system itself will either be a gas heating system supported by the pellet stove or a heat pump with baskets, depending on the location of the plot.
What’s the story with the infrared cabin? The cabin already exists and is intended to be placed in the bathroom, so that after the infrared session it is possible to shower quickly and conveniently.
Thank you
thank you for the detailed response.
Regarding the pellet heating. It is not a heating system, but a stove located in the living area with a 60 kg (132 lbs) tank. It is filled using bagged pellets (15 kg / 33 lbs). Delivery is done on pallets, which are stored in the garage.
So you can exclude the pellet heating from the calculations.
Chimney draft from the ground floor: 4,500 EUR. At trade fairs, I have repeatedly been quoted around 2,700–2,800 EUR. To be safe, I am budgeting 3,000 EUR.
If I distribute the additional percentage for the chimney across all other items, the total for the house comes in well under 400,000 EUR.
However, that is still too much. Either we will go smaller or do something completely different.
Hopefully, the plot will be finalized soon so we can start requesting quotes from construction companies.
The heating system itself will either be a gas heating system supported by the pellet stove or a heat pump with baskets, depending on the location of the plot.
What’s the story with the infrared cabin? The cabin already exists and is intended to be placed in the bathroom, so that after the infrared session it is possible to shower quickly and conveniently.
Thank you
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