ᐅ Semi-detached house, upscale fittings: Are the additional costs accurate?
Created on: 6 Dec 2014 11:35
3
305er
Hello,
Yesterday, we met with an architect who showed us a plot of land for a semi-detached house. The other half is already built.
The house has 140 sqm (1507 sqft) of living space, although a large part of this already includes the basement, as it is usable living space (with a window).
The house will be finished to a high standard (I will copy the real estate listing at the end here).
The architect will act as the general contractor and work with local craftsmen.
For additional work such as extra electrical outlets, different bathroom fixtures, etc., I will need to contact his respective craftsmen, who will then provide me with the costs.
Now to the main questions:
The house comes only with a gas heating system and radiators in the rooms.
He said if I want underfloor heating, it will be operated by an air-source heat pump.
The extra cost for this system plus underfloor heating is about €15,000 (about $16,200).
This sounded reasonable to me as I didn’t have any idea before. On this forum, some people were shocked when someone had to pay €8,000 (about $8,600) more.
What do you think about my price?
Also, he kept saying that this air-source heat pump is a form of solar technology, because it extracts heat from the air.
Furthermore:
There are additional costs of about €18,000 (about $19,400) for earthworks, sewer connections, and utility connections.
Is this reasonable?
He said this includes excavation and laying the connections from the street to the house (electricity, water, etc.).
Another extra:
We could install a heat recovery ventilation system with air filters for about €15,000 (about $16,200), similar to what you find in passive prefab houses.
He estimates this could improve the energy efficiency rating from KfW 70 (the usual) to 55.
Is it worth the extra cost, also considering the health benefits?
I am allergic to pollen and suffer from extreme eye itching/burning, throat itching, etc.
These were my main questions so far.
Additional points:
I forgot to ask about the cost for electric shutters. What would you estimate?
And approximately how much would a garage cost?
Is a bedroom with a walk-in closet sized at 15 sqm (160 sqft) big enough? It seems a bit small to me.
Finally:
The plot is on a slight slope. This means roughly half of the basement is below ground level, or put differently, from the terrace there are a few steps down to the garden.
On the left side is the other semi-detached house, on the right side there is a stream, and behind the garden, directly adjacent without any gap, the forest slope goes up.
There is occasional wildlife visiting (according to the neighbor: mice, two rats, a marten’s nest somewhere nearby, a young deer, wild boar).
How would you assess this kind of plot? We are basically city people.
That’s all from me for now. Thanks for your help.
Here is the listing:
+++ NO COMMISSION +++ “BAUHAUS STYLE” IDYLL BY A STREAM – with Basement
Purchase Price:
289,820.00 EUR
Rooms:
5.0
Living Area Approx.:
140.91 sqm (1,517 sqft)
Plot Size Approx.:
420.00 sqm (4,500 sqft)
Main Features
House type:
Semi-detached house
Usable area approx.:
16 sqm (172 sqft)
Number of floors:
3
Bedrooms:
4
Bathrooms:
1
Guest toilet:
Basement:
TV / Internet / Telephone:
Electricity consumption: from 2,500 kWh*
Costs
Purchase price:
289,820.00 EUR
Buyer’s commission:
None
Building Quality
Construction phase:
House in planning (designed)
Standard of finishes:
High-quality
Heating type:
Central heating
Energy certificate:
Not yet available
Property Description
Idyllically situated by a stream, secluded at the edge of the forest, a planned, attractive detached family home with a basement will be built here, turnkey and solidly constructed. This spacious and modern energy-efficient house can be customized with the architect to meet your personal needs, including changes to the floor plan and finishes for your “dream home.” - the open living/dining area is spacious and bright with lots of glazing overlooking the garden and terrace - room layout changes possible - master bedroom with walk-in closet and two children’s rooms - daylight-filled comfort bathroom - generous living/work room in the garden-level basement
Features
“Masterful craftsmanship by local specialized tradesmen” - finished basement - energy-saving, breathable natural brickwork with additional external insulation for energy-conscious comfort - heating system with efficient gas condensing technology, optionally with solar collectors and underfloor heating - family-friendly daylight bathroom with tub and shower - ceramic sanitary fixtures by “Villeroy & Boch” - bathroom and guest toilet tiled in granite - smoke detectors in all bedrooms - partially glass interior doors with decorative balcony railings on the upper floor - interior window sills in “Carrara Bianco” marble - solid wood veneer interior doors with stainless steel handles - electrical switches by “Gira” “Everything is possible, nothing is mandatory... let your wishes run free.”
Additional
Availability: approx. 16 weeks construction time after start
Floor plans and elevations may include optional features at extra cost.
Turnkey means in this offer:
- including plot
- including finished basement without plot-related costs such as earthworks, sewer and utility connections
Floor coverings and painting/wallpapering work done by buyer
Yesterday, we met with an architect who showed us a plot of land for a semi-detached house. The other half is already built.
The house has 140 sqm (1507 sqft) of living space, although a large part of this already includes the basement, as it is usable living space (with a window).
The house will be finished to a high standard (I will copy the real estate listing at the end here).
The architect will act as the general contractor and work with local craftsmen.
For additional work such as extra electrical outlets, different bathroom fixtures, etc., I will need to contact his respective craftsmen, who will then provide me with the costs.
Now to the main questions:
The house comes only with a gas heating system and radiators in the rooms.
He said if I want underfloor heating, it will be operated by an air-source heat pump.
The extra cost for this system plus underfloor heating is about €15,000 (about $16,200).
This sounded reasonable to me as I didn’t have any idea before. On this forum, some people were shocked when someone had to pay €8,000 (about $8,600) more.
What do you think about my price?
Also, he kept saying that this air-source heat pump is a form of solar technology, because it extracts heat from the air.
Furthermore:
There are additional costs of about €18,000 (about $19,400) for earthworks, sewer connections, and utility connections.
Is this reasonable?
He said this includes excavation and laying the connections from the street to the house (electricity, water, etc.).
Another extra:
We could install a heat recovery ventilation system with air filters for about €15,000 (about $16,200), similar to what you find in passive prefab houses.
He estimates this could improve the energy efficiency rating from KfW 70 (the usual) to 55.
Is it worth the extra cost, also considering the health benefits?
I am allergic to pollen and suffer from extreme eye itching/burning, throat itching, etc.
These were my main questions so far.
Additional points:
I forgot to ask about the cost for electric shutters. What would you estimate?
And approximately how much would a garage cost?
Is a bedroom with a walk-in closet sized at 15 sqm (160 sqft) big enough? It seems a bit small to me.
Finally:
The plot is on a slight slope. This means roughly half of the basement is below ground level, or put differently, from the terrace there are a few steps down to the garden.
On the left side is the other semi-detached house, on the right side there is a stream, and behind the garden, directly adjacent without any gap, the forest slope goes up.
There is occasional wildlife visiting (according to the neighbor: mice, two rats, a marten’s nest somewhere nearby, a young deer, wild boar).
How would you assess this kind of plot? We are basically city people.
That’s all from me for now. Thanks for your help.
Here is the listing:
+++ NO COMMISSION +++ “BAUHAUS STYLE” IDYLL BY A STREAM – with Basement
Purchase Price:
289,820.00 EUR
Rooms:
5.0
Living Area Approx.:
140.91 sqm (1,517 sqft)
Plot Size Approx.:
420.00 sqm (4,500 sqft)
Main Features
House type:
Semi-detached house
Usable area approx.:
16 sqm (172 sqft)
Number of floors:
3
Bedrooms:
4
Bathrooms:
1
Guest toilet:
Basement:
TV / Internet / Telephone:
Electricity consumption: from 2,500 kWh*
Costs
Purchase price:
289,820.00 EUR
Buyer’s commission:
None
Building Quality
Construction phase:
House in planning (designed)
Standard of finishes:
High-quality
Heating type:
Central heating
Energy certificate:
Not yet available
Property Description
Idyllically situated by a stream, secluded at the edge of the forest, a planned, attractive detached family home with a basement will be built here, turnkey and solidly constructed. This spacious and modern energy-efficient house can be customized with the architect to meet your personal needs, including changes to the floor plan and finishes for your “dream home.” - the open living/dining area is spacious and bright with lots of glazing overlooking the garden and terrace - room layout changes possible - master bedroom with walk-in closet and two children’s rooms - daylight-filled comfort bathroom - generous living/work room in the garden-level basement
Features
“Masterful craftsmanship by local specialized tradesmen” - finished basement - energy-saving, breathable natural brickwork with additional external insulation for energy-conscious comfort - heating system with efficient gas condensing technology, optionally with solar collectors and underfloor heating - family-friendly daylight bathroom with tub and shower - ceramic sanitary fixtures by “Villeroy & Boch” - bathroom and guest toilet tiled in granite - smoke detectors in all bedrooms - partially glass interior doors with decorative balcony railings on the upper floor - interior window sills in “Carrara Bianco” marble - solid wood veneer interior doors with stainless steel handles - electrical switches by “Gira” “Everything is possible, nothing is mandatory... let your wishes run free.”
Additional
Availability: approx. 16 weeks construction time after start
Floor plans and elevations may include optional features at extra cost.
Turnkey means in this offer:
- including plot
- including finished basement without plot-related costs such as earthworks, sewer and utility connections
Floor coverings and painting/wallpapering work done by buyer
B
Bauherren20149 Dec 2014 14:23305er schrieb:
We know that property transfer tax must be paid on everything. The architect knows this too, but he said that so far it has always worked to pay it only on the land.
The land is handled by a completely different real estate agent. And he would also arrange it so that we start building the house at a later time, significantly after buying the land.I wouldn’t bet on that if I were you. The tax office is not naïve.
Otherwise, you should take the advice from Bauexperte to heart. €230,000 for a 140 sqm (1,507 sq ft) house including a basement definitely doesn’t indicate high-end finishes.
305er schrieb:
So, the plot of land is about 460 square meters (4950 square feet) and costs 60,000 euros, which is really cheap for our region (Mannheim), even though it’s not officially part of Mannheim. It’s a small town along the Bergstraße. The standard land value for the street is actually around 210 euros per square meter (19.50 per square foot), so this is even cheaper than that. OK – here you should ask yourself why this plot is priced more than 35% below the actual market value.
I mean: 96,600 euros (210 * 460 square meters (4950 square feet)) versus 60,000 euros.
Be sure to follow BEFORE purchasing the land the recommendation of @Bauexperte and especially considering the nearby stream, obtain a soil report.
In the worst case, the soil may have seepage water, a water table, or hydrostatic pressure, and your costs could be much higher. Then you can decide whether you want to bear the additional high costs or walk away from the property.
I will now try to answer a few questions. Anything I don’t know, I will discuss with the architect on Friday, as we have another appointment with him where he will also prepare an offer for us.
To simplify some questions about size, plot (height from ground floor to garden, etc.), and general information, I edited the building specifications or rather a sales brochure PDF. I did this so that no important data can be read (privacy, copyright, etc.).
Regarding the square meter numbers:
Ground floor: 49.62 m² (well estimated by a building expert) (including stairs 3.77 m² (about 41 sq ft))
Upper floor: 55.99 m² (including stairs 3.44 m² (about 37 sq ft))
Basement: 36.75 m² usable as hobby/work area + cellar room. Additionally, 6.75 m² (about 73 sq ft) utility room and 2.14 m² (about 23 sq ft) hallway.
The number of electrical outlets per room still needs to be clarified.
Sanitary fixtures are from Villeroy & Boch (but probably the cheapest standard setup, looking like a normal rental apartment).
Regarding the average land price in Baden-Württemberg, this does not apply to the Rhine-Neckar region at all. In Mannheim, if it’s cheap, the price per square meter is about 500-600 € (about 46-56 USD) but in Mannheim-Feudenheim it can go up to 1200 € (about 110 USD) per square meter.
That’s why, unfortunately, we have to move out of our beloved city to a cheaper area.
The location where the semi-detached house is to be built was never really an issue for me^^… but you do what you have to for affordable land.
Therefore, the pure house + basement cost, as mentioned before, is about 230,000 € (about 210,000 USD).
What is meant by backfilling?
I only know that he said something like: The soil dug out can be used to level the garden.
The second semi-detached house will be slightly set back (see PDF attachment).
I don’t know the routing of the utility lines yet.
He is trying to get the soil report, also regarding the forest soil, by Friday.
But since one half has already been standing for a year, can “foundation additional costs” still occur?
KfW 70 standard apparently only works with underfloor heating and an air-source heat pump.
Drainage water? No idea. There apparently was no rise in the nearby stream’s level.
“In the middle of nowhere”... well, it depends on perspective. It’s actually fairly limited. It’s about 3-5 minutes by car “up” from Bergstraße along a “main road.” Kindergarten, school, bakery, etc., are actually within walking distance.
It’s just not a new development area as I had wished for, nor a large green space around it. But it is affordable.
And usually, you spend most of your time at home anyway, not outside on the street… right?
Isn’t every house with a basement considered three stories?
We are aware that changes, wishes, etc., cost extra.
Which value of the glass including the frame to be installed is meant?
You come from the living room onto your terrace, go down a few steps (1.5 m (about 5 ft)) and stand in the garden with a view of the forest.
The basement is developed as a hobby room + cellar (see attachment).
Isn’t every masonry wall covered with external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS / external insulation)?
The house has to be insulated somehow.
I assume the construction period is 16 weeks including everything.
But I can ask to confirm.
I don’t know why the plot is priced below the local land value. Maybe because it’s a gap site?
Or maybe the owner just couldn’t sell it… could be.
Feel free to share your experiences too, especially about questions we should definitely ask when we go there on Friday.
Thanks
To simplify some questions about size, plot (height from ground floor to garden, etc.), and general information, I edited the building specifications or rather a sales brochure PDF. I did this so that no important data can be read (privacy, copyright, etc.).
Regarding the square meter numbers:
Ground floor: 49.62 m² (well estimated by a building expert) (including stairs 3.77 m² (about 41 sq ft))
Upper floor: 55.99 m² (including stairs 3.44 m² (about 37 sq ft))
Basement: 36.75 m² usable as hobby/work area + cellar room. Additionally, 6.75 m² (about 73 sq ft) utility room and 2.14 m² (about 23 sq ft) hallway.
The number of electrical outlets per room still needs to be clarified.
Sanitary fixtures are from Villeroy & Boch (but probably the cheapest standard setup, looking like a normal rental apartment).
Regarding the average land price in Baden-Württemberg, this does not apply to the Rhine-Neckar region at all. In Mannheim, if it’s cheap, the price per square meter is about 500-600 € (about 46-56 USD) but in Mannheim-Feudenheim it can go up to 1200 € (about 110 USD) per square meter.
That’s why, unfortunately, we have to move out of our beloved city to a cheaper area.
The location where the semi-detached house is to be built was never really an issue for me^^… but you do what you have to for affordable land.
Therefore, the pure house + basement cost, as mentioned before, is about 230,000 € (about 210,000 USD).
What is meant by backfilling?
I only know that he said something like: The soil dug out can be used to level the garden.
The second semi-detached house will be slightly set back (see PDF attachment).
I don’t know the routing of the utility lines yet.
He is trying to get the soil report, also regarding the forest soil, by Friday.
But since one half has already been standing for a year, can “foundation additional costs” still occur?
KfW 70 standard apparently only works with underfloor heating and an air-source heat pump.
Drainage water? No idea. There apparently was no rise in the nearby stream’s level.
“In the middle of nowhere”... well, it depends on perspective. It’s actually fairly limited. It’s about 3-5 minutes by car “up” from Bergstraße along a “main road.” Kindergarten, school, bakery, etc., are actually within walking distance.
It’s just not a new development area as I had wished for, nor a large green space around it. But it is affordable.
And usually, you spend most of your time at home anyway, not outside on the street… right?
Isn’t every house with a basement considered three stories?
We are aware that changes, wishes, etc., cost extra.
Which value of the glass including the frame to be installed is meant?
You come from the living room onto your terrace, go down a few steps (1.5 m (about 5 ft)) and stand in the garden with a view of the forest.
The basement is developed as a hobby room + cellar (see attachment).
Isn’t every masonry wall covered with external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS / external insulation)?
The house has to be insulated somehow.
I assume the construction period is 16 weeks including everything.
But I can ask to confirm.
I don’t know why the plot is priced below the local land value. Maybe because it’s a gap site?
Or maybe the owner just couldn’t sell it… could be.
Feel free to share your experiences too, especially about questions we should definitely ask when we go there on Friday.
Thanks
B
Bauexperte10 Dec 2014 11:36Hello,
The house is being built with a basement, which means the excavation pit plus the working space must be dug out and the soil stored. That will be roughly 300 cubic meters (about 390 cubic yards) of soil including topsoil; the topsoil must be stripped first and stored separately.
As soon as the basement is finished, the working space must be backfilled and compacted.
Whether the excavated soil can be stored on the property depends on the soil report as well as the general terrain profile, and if yes, there must also be enough space for it. This decision should definitely be made before your garage is built.
Of course. For example, if the neighbor built without a basement, you have to support their house—or if a water vein runs under your property, or clay is found just below the turf layer, and so on.
No.
The U-value.
That’s what I suspected. This means the balcony limits the daylight access to the basement in that area.
No.
No.
Doesn’t that seem a bit too short to you?
Regards, Bauexperte
305er schrieb:
What is meant by backfilling? I only know that he said something like: The soil that is excavated can be used to level the garden.
The house is being built with a basement, which means the excavation pit plus the working space must be dug out and the soil stored. That will be roughly 300 cubic meters (about 390 cubic yards) of soil including topsoil; the topsoil must be stripped first and stored separately.
As soon as the basement is finished, the working space must be backfilled and compacted.
Whether the excavated soil can be stored on the property depends on the soil report as well as the general terrain profile, and if yes, there must also be enough space for it. This decision should definitely be made before your garage is built.
305er schrieb:
But one half has already been standing for a year, can "additional foundation costs" still occur?
Of course. For example, if the neighbor built without a basement, you have to support their house—or if a water vein runs under your property, or clay is found just below the turf layer, and so on.
305er schrieb:
Isn’t every house with a basement three stories?
No.
305er schrieb:
Which value of the glass including the frame is meant?
The U-value.
305er schrieb:
You go from the living room onto your terrace, go down a few steps (1.5m (5 feet)) and stand in the garden with a view of the forest.
That’s what I suspected. This means the balcony limits the daylight access to the basement in that area.
305er schrieb:
Isn’t every masonry covered with ETICS (external thermal insulation composite system)?
No.
305er schrieb:
The house has to be insulated somehow.
No.
305er schrieb:
I assume the construction time is 16 weeks including everything.
Doesn’t that seem a bit too short to you?
Regards, Bauexperte
I will try to provide some comments on a few points:
I don’t think the architect can present you with a soil report specifically for this plot. Such a report would normally have to be prepared before the planned sale. But why would the seller want to bear costs that only concern the future buyer?
Usually, preparing a soil report is not something done within three days. A company will come, drill several boreholes (2 or 4), analyze the soil for consistency and moisture, and then draw the appropriate conclusions. This generally takes several days.
If the architect provides you with a soil report from a neighboring property, that might give some indication, but soil conditions and especially water flow can change within just a few meters between adjacent plots.
Seepage water or groundwater can definitely be related to the presence of a stream. Also, it’s clear that the soil becomes wetter the closer you get to the stream.
However, seepage water and groundwater can also occur on plots without any nearby water bodies. For example, on our plot, water was found at about 80cm (31 inches) depth during a borehole test (you could even hear a splash when dropping a small stone). Our plot is approximately 50 m (164 feet) above the river and has no nearby watercourses.
Only a soil report can provide more detailed information here (though even that cannot guarantee absolute certainty) – in my opinion, this is a crucial point for any building plot buyer.
Additional costs for installing a staircase are estimated at 5,000 to 10,000 EUR.
No. Houses built with materials like aerated concrete (e.g. Ytong), hollow bricks (sometimes filled), Poroton bricks, or similar generally do not require external thermal insulation systems (ETICS, often called “plastic cladding”). (Please correct me if I am wrong.)
Sixteen weeks including drying is very ambitious.
Our build took six months including drying, and that was already quite fast.
Friends of ours finished in about four months – I really hope they don’t face unpleasant surprises later because their house might not be sufficiently dry.
And this is exactly where you should ask yourself: Why did the owner not manage to sell it? What could be the reason? In my opinion, a building gap should not be the issue. As you mentioned, the land price in that area is about 38% higher. There is demand in your region.
If it were just the location within the town, a discount of 5-10% on the price should be enough to offset this disadvantage.
The only reason I can think of is if the previous owner is under pressure to sell quickly (for example due to inheritance payments, insolvency, or similar).
305er schrieb:
Soil reports, including those regarding the forest soil, he wants to try to obtain by Friday.
But one half has already been standing for a year, can additional foundation costs still arise?
I don’t think the architect can present you with a soil report specifically for this plot. Such a report would normally have to be prepared before the planned sale. But why would the seller want to bear costs that only concern the future buyer?
Usually, preparing a soil report is not something done within three days. A company will come, drill several boreholes (2 or 4), analyze the soil for consistency and moisture, and then draw the appropriate conclusions. This generally takes several days.
If the architect provides you with a soil report from a neighboring property, that might give some indication, but soil conditions and especially water flow can change within just a few meters between adjacent plots.
305er schrieb:
Seepage water? No idea. There was apparently no rise in the stream flow.
Seepage water or groundwater can definitely be related to the presence of a stream. Also, it’s clear that the soil becomes wetter the closer you get to the stream.
However, seepage water and groundwater can also occur on plots without any nearby water bodies. For example, on our plot, water was found at about 80cm (31 inches) depth during a borehole test (you could even hear a splash when dropping a small stone). Our plot is approximately 50 m (164 feet) above the river and has no nearby watercourses.
Only a soil report can provide more detailed information here (though even that cannot guarantee absolute certainty) – in my opinion, this is a crucial point for any building plot buyer.
305er schrieb:
You enter your terrace from the living room, go down a few steps (1.5m) and are in the garden with a view of the forest.
Additional costs for installing a staircase are estimated at 5,000 to 10,000 EUR.
305er schrieb:
Isn’t every masonry wall covered with external thermal insulation? The house needs to be insulated somehow.
No. Houses built with materials like aerated concrete (e.g. Ytong), hollow bricks (sometimes filled), Poroton bricks, or similar generally do not require external thermal insulation systems (ETICS, often called “plastic cladding”). (Please correct me if I am wrong.)
305er schrieb:
I assume the construction period will be 16 weeks including everything. I can ask to confirm.
Sixteen weeks including drying is very ambitious.
Our build took six months including drying, and that was already quite fast.
Friends of ours finished in about four months – I really hope they don’t face unpleasant surprises later because their house might not be sufficiently dry.
305er schrieb:
I don’t know why the land is below the standard land value. Maybe because it is a building gap? Or the owner couldn’t sell it... could be.
And this is exactly where you should ask yourself: Why did the owner not manage to sell it? What could be the reason? In my opinion, a building gap should not be the issue. As you mentioned, the land price in that area is about 38% higher. There is demand in your region.
If it were just the location within the town, a discount of 5-10% on the price should be enough to offset this disadvantage.
The only reason I can think of is if the previous owner is under pressure to sell quickly (for example due to inheritance payments, insolvency, or similar).
Hi everyone... as I said, I will try to get all the architect's questions answered tomorrow.
Do you have any other questions that I should definitely ask???
If it works out, I will post all the answers tomorrow (but it might be tight timewise, since I have a Christmas party )
Do you have any other questions that I should definitely ask???
If it works out, I will post all the answers tomorrow (but it might be tight timewise, since I have a Christmas party )
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