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MelixFagath7 Oct 2014 15:30Hello everyone!
My wife and I have been searching for a home for quite some time. Since we haven’t found anything suitable yet, we are currently considering building a new house more seriously. The plot of land is not an issue, and we have an architect friend who would design the house (according to his information, we should budget around €1250 per m² (about $116 per sq ft) of living space plus 12% additional building costs).
Our "dream house" should have a living area of 150-170 m² (about 1,615-1,830 sq ft), 4 rooms (bedroom, 2 children’s rooms, and an office), a small conservatory, a pitched roof, and meet KfW 80 or 70 energy standards — these are the main points.
Since we currently earn around €2900 net (about $3,190) per month and don’t want to work only to pay off the house for 30 years, we are considering building a large part of it ourselves.
We could either build a solid masonry house or a timber frame construction. With a masonry house, we could save around €20,000 (about $22,000) by laying the tiles and laminate flooring ourselves and doing the painting. For the timber frame house, there would be an additional saving of €10,000 (about $11,000) if we install the insulation ourselves.
My father is confident that we could also build the shell by ourselves. He is a very skilled craftsman and has already built two extensions and a garage (so far, nothing has collapsed). I’m just concerned that many regulations and requirements have changed over the past few years.
Is it really possible to build the foundation and shell by ourselves, and how much could we realistically save? I would leave the roof, windows, and doors to the professionals—mainly because of the warranty. The electrical work could be done by my father-in-law, who is an electrical engineer.
Is it feasible to skip insulation if we use thicker building blocks?
I still have so many questions, but I’ll stop here for now.
I hope you can help me.
Thanks!
Best regards
My wife and I have been searching for a home for quite some time. Since we haven’t found anything suitable yet, we are currently considering building a new house more seriously. The plot of land is not an issue, and we have an architect friend who would design the house (according to his information, we should budget around €1250 per m² (about $116 per sq ft) of living space plus 12% additional building costs).
Our "dream house" should have a living area of 150-170 m² (about 1,615-1,830 sq ft), 4 rooms (bedroom, 2 children’s rooms, and an office), a small conservatory, a pitched roof, and meet KfW 80 or 70 energy standards — these are the main points.
Since we currently earn around €2900 net (about $3,190) per month and don’t want to work only to pay off the house for 30 years, we are considering building a large part of it ourselves.
We could either build a solid masonry house or a timber frame construction. With a masonry house, we could save around €20,000 (about $22,000) by laying the tiles and laminate flooring ourselves and doing the painting. For the timber frame house, there would be an additional saving of €10,000 (about $11,000) if we install the insulation ourselves.
My father is confident that we could also build the shell by ourselves. He is a very skilled craftsman and has already built two extensions and a garage (so far, nothing has collapsed). I’m just concerned that many regulations and requirements have changed over the past few years.
Is it really possible to build the foundation and shell by ourselves, and how much could we realistically save? I would leave the roof, windows, and doors to the professionals—mainly because of the warranty. The electrical work could be done by my father-in-law, who is an electrical engineer.
Is it feasible to skip insulation if we use thicker building blocks?
I still have so many questions, but I’ll stop here for now.
I hope you can help me.
Thanks!
Best regards
1200 euros per square meter? I believe the average according to BKI is closer to 1600 euros per square meter.
Saving 20,000 euros by doing the installation yourself? I'm not an expert, but that seems a bit high to me. You still have to cover the material costs.
I would recommend calculating that more precisely.
Doing it yourself also requires a significant time investment. Do you have that time? Are you able to spend a few hours on the construction site after a full day of work? Will your health allow it? If you do it yourself, it will most likely take longer. During that time, you will also have to pay interim financing costs (or interest on the construction loan).
Saving 20,000 euros by doing the installation yourself? I'm not an expert, but that seems a bit high to me. You still have to cover the material costs.
I would recommend calculating that more precisely.
Doing it yourself also requires a significant time investment. Do you have that time? Are you able to spend a few hours on the construction site after a full day of work? Will your health allow it? If you do it yourself, it will most likely take longer. During that time, you will also have to pay interim financing costs (or interest on the construction loan).
There are self-build houses, for example from Ytong, that you can assemble yourself using adhesive. The question is always how much time you have to do it yourself and whether you feel confident with the craftsmanship.
You don't necessarily need insulation if the blocks are thick enough, but it definitely depends on the exact materials used.
You don't necessarily need insulation if the blocks are thick enough, but it definitely depends on the exact materials used.
B
Bauexperte8 Oct 2014 09:16Good morning,
Regards, Bauexperte
MelixFagath schrieb:North Rhine-Westphalia (NRW) is large, but even in districts like Minden-Lübbecke, Steinfurt, Kleve, or Viersen, I consider this statement to be "risky"; it also doesn’t add up if you replace "LIVING" area with "TOTAL" area. Approximately 12% additional construction costs only come close to reality if the land does not cause extra foundation costs. This statement likely reflects the knowledge that your architect friend is legally allowed to exceed the target by up to 20% – or in some cases even more.
... and among friends, there is an architect who would design the house (according to his information, we should expect €1250 per m2 (10.8 sq ft) of living space + 12% additional construction costs).
MelixFagath schrieb:Then you should realistically budget between €233,000 and €255,000 before painting and flooring (turnkey).
Our “dream house” should have a living area of 150-170 m2 (1615-1830 sq ft), 4 rooms (bedroom, 2 children’s rooms, and an office), a small conservatory, pitched roof, KfW 80 or 70 standard... those are the most important points.
MelixFagath schrieb:Basically yes; but it depends on the individual case.
Is it possible to skip insulation if you use wider bricks?
MelixFagath schrieb:Read through the forum here; I’m sure many of your questions will be answered.
I still have so many questions, but I’ll hold off for now.
Regards, Bauexperte
M
MelixFagath8 Oct 2014 09:25Thanks for the replies!
As I mentioned at the beginning, my father has already done a lot of the work himself... two extensions, a large garage that could almost be a house. He plastered walls better than someone who does it regularly (at least compared to the last person he paid when he didn’t have time). My father-in-law also built most of his house by himself.
I think time is the biggest challenge, while the craftsmanship is the smaller one. I sit in an office all day and don’t get much physical activity afterward. But it’s not like I’m unable to work. When we renovated our apartment, I also installed the tiles and laminate flooring. We converted a narrow balcony door into a wider main entrance door (the brickwork had to be rearranged, the opening obviously enlarged, and finally (the door was installed by professionals) everything was covered with Fermacell boards). An external staircase was then added to the balcony. Inside the apartment, part of a wall was demolished to create a wider passage, and a self-built lintel (with a lot of steel reinforcement) was installed.
I think if an experienced mason were around to explain and show a bit, I could do it alone as well. The only doubts I have are about the foundation and the ceiling(s).
My architect told me the cost would be 1250€/m2 (1250 €/m2). At the moment, he is building a house costing about 1500€/m2 (1500 €/m2). But that includes a lot of extras, an expensive heating system, a huge balcony, and a double garage. When I visited, he also showed me a construction defect caused by the building company. Nothing serious but a cosmetic flaw that needs to be fixed. That makes me think I’d rather build it myself.
So, saving 20,000€ (20,000 €) by doing tile and laminate installation, painting, and wallpapering myself. I think labor costs are very high in this estimate.
I would do the work after my regular job, have support, and I’m currently still looking for a mason as a "foreman." I’m physically fit too… for now. I work out regularly at the gym (okay, you can’t really compare that to construction work), but at least that way I could also save the monthly gym fee…
Regarding Ytong blocks… I heard from a friend that they absorb water quickly and can develop mold fast. But I will look into this topic in more detail.
As I mentioned at the beginning, my father has already done a lot of the work himself... two extensions, a large garage that could almost be a house. He plastered walls better than someone who does it regularly (at least compared to the last person he paid when he didn’t have time). My father-in-law also built most of his house by himself.
I think time is the biggest challenge, while the craftsmanship is the smaller one. I sit in an office all day and don’t get much physical activity afterward. But it’s not like I’m unable to work. When we renovated our apartment, I also installed the tiles and laminate flooring. We converted a narrow balcony door into a wider main entrance door (the brickwork had to be rearranged, the opening obviously enlarged, and finally (the door was installed by professionals) everything was covered with Fermacell boards). An external staircase was then added to the balcony. Inside the apartment, part of a wall was demolished to create a wider passage, and a self-built lintel (with a lot of steel reinforcement) was installed.
I think if an experienced mason were around to explain and show a bit, I could do it alone as well. The only doubts I have are about the foundation and the ceiling(s).
My architect told me the cost would be 1250€/m2 (1250 €/m2). At the moment, he is building a house costing about 1500€/m2 (1500 €/m2). But that includes a lot of extras, an expensive heating system, a huge balcony, and a double garage. When I visited, he also showed me a construction defect caused by the building company. Nothing serious but a cosmetic flaw that needs to be fixed. That makes me think I’d rather build it myself.
So, saving 20,000€ (20,000 €) by doing tile and laminate installation, painting, and wallpapering myself. I think labor costs are very high in this estimate.
I would do the work after my regular job, have support, and I’m currently still looking for a mason as a "foreman." I’m physically fit too… for now. I work out regularly at the gym (okay, you can’t really compare that to construction work), but at least that way I could also save the monthly gym fee…
Regarding Ytong blocks… I heard from a friend that they absorb water quickly and can develop mold fast. But I will look into this topic in more detail.
We are currently working on the exterior area – we are doing 100% of that ourselves because we didn’t want to spend an additional 30,000–40,000 euros.
Therefore: I would advise against it; it’s not worth it. Especially since you are under time pressure and have a double burden (interest on bridging loans or rent). It’s better to have the property built turnkey quickly. You will have plenty to do anyway!
DaveS
- It takes endlessly long; you simply overestimate yourself.
- Although I am skilled with tools, I’m doing many things for the first time (installing a fence, excavating, felling trees, concreting foundations and curbs, paving, building a terrace, etc.) – when you finish, you usually know how you should have done it right away. Conservatively, expect double the time compared to a professional.
- Material costs still apply, plus rental costs for equipment (excavator, milling machine, vibrating plate, etc.), which I estimate to be about one-third to one-half of the total cost.
- That leaves about 15,000–20,000 euros worth of labor saved. Assuming an hourly rate of 75 euros and that a DIYer needs twice the time, that’s about 500 hours or 60 full working days! Trying to complete that in one year is unrealistic.
- Additionally, the weather doesn’t always cooperate when working outdoors, which can affect self-builders until the house is sealed.
Therefore: I would advise against it; it’s not worth it. Especially since you are under time pressure and have a double burden (interest on bridging loans or rent). It’s better to have the property built turnkey quickly. You will have plenty to do anyway!
DaveS
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