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garfunkel7 Jun 2016 20:58Hello,
I need to have screed fully installed in the bathroom, approximately 3x3.5m (about 10m²/108ft²), and in two other rooms, an extension of the existing screed because the knee wall shifts further outward due to dormer windows.
The screed extension would be approximately 3x1m (3m²/32ft²) in one room and about 7x1m (7m²/75ft²) in the other.
Additionally, a wall that was removed needs to be filled, measuring 3x0.11m (0.3m²/3ft²).
As far as I can tell, the existing screed in the apartment is cement screed.
The structure involves some sort of mats (I'm not a professional), which from what I could see are 2cm (0.8 inches) thick with 5cm (2 inches) of screed on top.
I assume the new screed will also be cement screed?
How long should I allow for proper drying?
After how much time can I safely walk on the screed and carry out further renovation work such as wall plastering, painting, and similar activities?
After how long can I start tiling the bathroom floor without performing moisture measurements?
After how long can I start installing a floating floor (HDF vinyl with vapor barrier foil) without performing moisture measurements?
Since screed is only partially being installed outside the bathroom, is it okay to continue renovating the other side of the room the day after the screed installation?
I want to avoid idle time as much as possible but also have enough time to allow the screed to dry properly.
Can I extend the screed in other areas besides the bathroom to reduce drying times (there will be empty conduits for electrical and heating pipes installed in the floor)?
In the channel where the wall used to be, I want to lay one or two empty conduits for electrical wiring. Is that possible, or is the channel, at a maximum of 15cm (6 inches) wide, too narrow?
Are there more cost-effective alternatives (except for the bathroom) for extending the screed that I, as a DIYer, could consider? It should be at least as effective or better than "classic" screed.
Is it possible to give a rough estimate of the cost for about 20m² (215ft²) of screed, just as a general guideline?
Since I will be tiling the bathroom myself, where can I rent a measuring device to be sure and only start tiling once the screed is really dry?
€: There is no underfloor heating anywhere.
I need to have screed fully installed in the bathroom, approximately 3x3.5m (about 10m²/108ft²), and in two other rooms, an extension of the existing screed because the knee wall shifts further outward due to dormer windows.
The screed extension would be approximately 3x1m (3m²/32ft²) in one room and about 7x1m (7m²/75ft²) in the other.
Additionally, a wall that was removed needs to be filled, measuring 3x0.11m (0.3m²/3ft²).
As far as I can tell, the existing screed in the apartment is cement screed.
The structure involves some sort of mats (I'm not a professional), which from what I could see are 2cm (0.8 inches) thick with 5cm (2 inches) of screed on top.
I assume the new screed will also be cement screed?
How long should I allow for proper drying?
After how much time can I safely walk on the screed and carry out further renovation work such as wall plastering, painting, and similar activities?
After how long can I start tiling the bathroom floor without performing moisture measurements?
After how long can I start installing a floating floor (HDF vinyl with vapor barrier foil) without performing moisture measurements?
Since screed is only partially being installed outside the bathroom, is it okay to continue renovating the other side of the room the day after the screed installation?
I want to avoid idle time as much as possible but also have enough time to allow the screed to dry properly.
Can I extend the screed in other areas besides the bathroom to reduce drying times (there will be empty conduits for electrical and heating pipes installed in the floor)?
In the channel where the wall used to be, I want to lay one or two empty conduits for electrical wiring. Is that possible, or is the channel, at a maximum of 15cm (6 inches) wide, too narrow?
Are there more cost-effective alternatives (except for the bathroom) for extending the screed that I, as a DIYer, could consider? It should be at least as effective or better than "classic" screed.
Is it possible to give a rough estimate of the cost for about 20m² (215ft²) of screed, just as a general guideline?
Since I will be tiling the bathroom myself, where can I rent a measuring device to be sure and only start tiling once the screed is really dry?
€: There is no underfloor heating anywhere.
Hello,
here is my layman’s opinion:
I would always recommend playing it safe and having a measurement done. A rough guideline can be the so-called foil test (search online for “foil test screed”).
Yes, you can continue working there without any problems.
There is also so-called dry screed (you can look it up). That should be suitable for your bathroom as well.
See above.
To calculate that, you would need to know the thickness of the screed to determine the volume. You should be able to figure that out yourself. Prices for ready-mix screed can be found in online stores of major hardware chains.
Tile specialty stores, professional tilers, or screed installers typically have such devices.
here is my layman’s opinion:
garfunkel schrieb:
After how long can I start tiling the bathroom without performing a moisture measurement?
After how long can I start installing a floating floor (HDF vinyl with vapor barrier) without a measurement?
I would always recommend playing it safe and having a measurement done. A rough guideline can be the so-called foil test (search online for “foil test screed”).
garfunkel schrieb:
Since screed is only partially installed outside the bathroom, is it okay to continue renovating on the other side of the room the day after the screed installation?
Yes, you can continue working there without any problems.
garfunkel schrieb:
Can I extend the screed in other areas (except the bathroom) to avoid long drying times (empty conduits for electrical and heating pipes are laid in the floor)?
There is also so-called dry screed (you can look it up). That should be suitable for your bathroom as well.
garfunkel schrieb:
Are there more cost-effective alternatives (except in the bathroom) that I as a DIYer could consider to extend the screed?
They should be at least as practical or better than “classic” screed.
See above.
garfunkel schrieb:
Can anyone give a rough estimate of what it could/might/should cost (20m² (215 ft²) of screed)?
To calculate that, you would need to know the thickness of the screed to determine the volume. You should be able to figure that out yourself. Prices for ready-mix screed can be found in online stores of major hardware chains.
garfunkel schrieb:
Since I will tile the bathroom myself, where can I rent a measuring device to be sure and only tile when the screed is truly dry?
Tile specialty stores, professional tilers, or screed installers typically have such devices.
Just a few additional tips from me:
- There are additives available for bathroom renovations that significantly reduce the usual drying times (which are rarely possible or desired when the property is occupied) to just a few days. This certainly has some drawbacks and is more expensive, but according to my contractor, it is frequently used in practice. So far, I have not noticed any disadvantages, although I have not yet had the silicone joints installed to allow everything to settle first, if necessary. Also, the installation of the floor tiles was delayed by a few days because a lower slip resistance class was initially delivered, and the tiles I wanted had to be reordered.
- I was strongly advised against patching cement screed during my bathroom renovation, as this would likely cause cracks at the joints. I had the screed completely redone in both rooms (guest toilet and bathroom). This may have been related to the installed underfloor heating in my bathroom, which had a construction height that was actually too low. An additional benefit of redoing the screed was that I was able to have the heating pipes embedded in the level-access shower.
- There are additives available for bathroom renovations that significantly reduce the usual drying times (which are rarely possible or desired when the property is occupied) to just a few days. This certainly has some drawbacks and is more expensive, but according to my contractor, it is frequently used in practice. So far, I have not noticed any disadvantages, although I have not yet had the silicone joints installed to allow everything to settle first, if necessary. Also, the installation of the floor tiles was delayed by a few days because a lower slip resistance class was initially delivered, and the tiles I wanted had to be reordered.
- I was strongly advised against patching cement screed during my bathroom renovation, as this would likely cause cracks at the joints. I had the screed completely redone in both rooms (guest toilet and bathroom). This may have been related to the installed underfloor heating in my bathroom, which had a construction height that was actually too low. An additional benefit of redoing the screed was that I was able to have the heating pipes embedded in the level-access shower.
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garfunkel8 Jun 2016 15:47Thanks for the information.
@FrankH:
I don’t want a level-access shower.
What do you mean about the heating pipes? As far as I know, it’s always possible as long as the screed is newly installed, right?
To get a rough idea of what might work for me, I’m considering either a professionally installed “liquid” screed or a dry screed system for self-installation.
In the bathroom and a small adjacent area, I’m currently on a concrete floor. It’s mostly level. Heating pipes, wastewater pipes, and a few empty conduits for electrical wiring will be installed there.
So far, I’ve only found general information about dry screed. From what I understand, a leveling compound is also applied there to create a flat, even “starting level.”
Is this compound applied directly onto the concrete floor and does it therefore surround the wastewater, heating pipes, and empty conduits?
Do I then not need any mats that are supposed to reduce heat loss and impact sound on the concrete slab?
What exactly is the compound that is applied or processed there? I have only seen one video so far, and it looked “soft” or not setting hard. Does that mean the dry screed panels rest on a soft substrate?
When I think about it...
The depth of 1 m (3 ft) is reduced along the length of 7 m (23 ft) by the width of a radiator (which I don’t have at hand right now).
Let’s just say 15 cm (6 inches). That leaves about 0.85 m (33 inches). Part of a sofa will later be placed there, which will load the floor.
Heavier furniture is almost ruled out because there are windows along the entire 7 m (23 ft) length as well as radiators. So the sofa is actually not ideally placed there anyway...
How does it look if dry screed panels, which are about 1 m (3 ft) wide, are loaded at the edges? Is there a risk of cracking or something similar?
I’m not sure...
In the smaller section of 3 m (10 ft) length, the kitchen will be located later. Loading there should be rather negligible, right? Also, it won’t be as critical how perfectly level the surface is, since the kitchen will be adjusted on its feet anyway.
So the more I think about it, the more I’m leaning toward dry screed since it’s only small areas and it will probably be much cheaper for me.
There are just a few basics I’m unclear about, such as this leveling compound and how heat and sound insulation are handled. Also, the load-bearing capacity — due to structural conditions, these areas where the screed is newly installed simply won’t have to carry a full bookcase or anything like that.
@FrankH:
I don’t want a level-access shower.
What do you mean about the heating pipes? As far as I know, it’s always possible as long as the screed is newly installed, right?
To get a rough idea of what might work for me, I’m considering either a professionally installed “liquid” screed or a dry screed system for self-installation.
In the bathroom and a small adjacent area, I’m currently on a concrete floor. It’s mostly level. Heating pipes, wastewater pipes, and a few empty conduits for electrical wiring will be installed there.
So far, I’ve only found general information about dry screed. From what I understand, a leveling compound is also applied there to create a flat, even “starting level.”
Is this compound applied directly onto the concrete floor and does it therefore surround the wastewater, heating pipes, and empty conduits?
Do I then not need any mats that are supposed to reduce heat loss and impact sound on the concrete slab?
What exactly is the compound that is applied or processed there? I have only seen one video so far, and it looked “soft” or not setting hard. Does that mean the dry screed panels rest on a soft substrate?
When I think about it...
The depth of 1 m (3 ft) is reduced along the length of 7 m (23 ft) by the width of a radiator (which I don’t have at hand right now).
Let’s just say 15 cm (6 inches). That leaves about 0.85 m (33 inches). Part of a sofa will later be placed there, which will load the floor.
Heavier furniture is almost ruled out because there are windows along the entire 7 m (23 ft) length as well as radiators. So the sofa is actually not ideally placed there anyway...
How does it look if dry screed panels, which are about 1 m (3 ft) wide, are loaded at the edges? Is there a risk of cracking or something similar?
I’m not sure...
In the smaller section of 3 m (10 ft) length, the kitchen will be located later. Loading there should be rather negligible, right? Also, it won’t be as critical how perfectly level the surface is, since the kitchen will be adjusted on its feet anyway.
So the more I think about it, the more I’m leaning toward dry screed since it’s only small areas and it will probably be much cheaper for me.
There are just a few basics I’m unclear about, such as this leveling compound and how heat and sound insulation are handled. Also, the load-bearing capacity — due to structural conditions, these areas where the screed is newly installed simply won’t have to carry a full bookcase or anything like that.
garfunkel schrieb:
@FrankH:
I don’t want a walk-in level shower in my bathroom.
What do you mean by the heating pipes? As far as I know, that’s always possible if the screed is replaced, right? My bathroom originally had a shower and a bathtub. There was no screed or underfloor heating beneath them; the heating was installed only in the rest of the room. Initially, I considered patching the screed to create a walk-in level shower where the bathtub and shower tray used to be. Then I could have installed electric floor heating there. By having the screed fully replaced, I was able to extend the warm water underfloor heating to cover the entire rest of the room, including the whole shower area and access, since all the heating pipes were newly installed.
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