ᐅ Roof Pitch and Knee Wall Height When Planning a Flat Dormer
Created on: 11 Sep 2022 10:26
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epinephrin
Now I finally dare to ask a question, as my ability to visualize often lets me down...
We are currently planning the floor layout for a solid construction with a general contractor. The regulations in the development plan are as follows:
Floor area ratio 0.4
Plot ratio 0.8
2 full stories allowed – ridge height 8.80 m (29 ft)
Any roof type allowed (except barrel and pagoda roofs)
Gable roof 30–45 degrees, hip roof 25–35 degrees permitted
After initially having a rather long wish list (open space, window seat, bay window/dormer, open straight staircase) for about 165–170 sqm (1780–1830 sq ft) of living space, we have already made some compromises. What remains is the desire for a dormer with a window seat on the upper floor (similar to the example photo).
Now the question arises regarding the optimal ceiling height and roof pitch. Our general contractor has been trying to convince us to go with 2 full stories (for practical reasons?). For us, however, 2 full stories would only fit a city villa style; a gable roof starting at 30° on a 2-story house looks very bulky to me. Am I right? I can’t quite imagine how a 25-degree hip roof would look with such a dormer.
So, in my view, for the roof with dormer, the only options are:
We are currently stuck in our thoughts; we have looked at different knee wall heights and roof pitches, but we are unsure which would be the most suitable for the dormer. Our general contractor is very practical and, as mentioned, would prefer 2 full stories (for furnishing reasons) plus at least a 30° roof pitch for the use of a cold attic space. But wouldn’t that just be a bulky box?
I’m looking forward to hearing the opinions of the forum experts here... 🙂
We are currently planning the floor layout for a solid construction with a general contractor. The regulations in the development plan are as follows:
Floor area ratio 0.4
Plot ratio 0.8
2 full stories allowed – ridge height 8.80 m (29 ft)
Any roof type allowed (except barrel and pagoda roofs)
Gable roof 30–45 degrees, hip roof 25–35 degrees permitted
After initially having a rather long wish list (open space, window seat, bay window/dormer, open straight staircase) for about 165–170 sqm (1780–1830 sq ft) of living space, we have already made some compromises. What remains is the desire for a dormer with a window seat on the upper floor (similar to the example photo).
Now the question arises regarding the optimal ceiling height and roof pitch. Our general contractor has been trying to convince us to go with 2 full stories (for practical reasons?). For us, however, 2 full stories would only fit a city villa style; a gable roof starting at 30° on a 2-story house looks very bulky to me. Am I right? I can’t quite imagine how a 25-degree hip roof would look with such a dormer.
So, in my view, for the roof with dormer, the only options are:
- Gable roof with a minimum pitch of 30° + knee wall height 1.8 m (or higher?)
- Gable roof with a steep pitch of 45° and knee wall height 0.8–1 m
- Hip roof pitch 25° with 2 full stories or 1.5 stories with a high knee wall
We are currently stuck in our thoughts; we have looked at different knee wall heights and roof pitches, but we are unsure which would be the most suitable for the dormer. Our general contractor is very practical and, as mentioned, would prefer 2 full stories (for furnishing reasons) plus at least a 30° roof pitch for the use of a cold attic space. But wouldn’t that just be a bulky box?
I’m looking forward to hearing the opinions of the forum experts here... 🙂
epinephrin schrieb:
I’ve read about the zigzag wall somewhere. Is it worth searching for it?You can use the forum’s search function for that, but the term doesn’t lead to the hiding place of the Amber Room, only to the house of @chrisw81 (similar to most results for "piano"). The zigzag wall is just a small enhancement for an otherwise unspectacular floor plan.epinephrin schrieb:
How do you estimate the approximate living area that the budget allows for,At the moment, not at all – the reasons for price increases are interchangeable; after bark beetles / coronavirus / Putin, new causes will emerge if any of these are overcome. I actually meant that you shouldn’t try to fully exhaust the budget. You don’t suddenly need a bigger house just because the daily price per square meter might temporarily be lower than expected. Smart building families are happy to take the "risk" of possibly having some money "left over" in the worst case.epinephrin schrieb:
when architects are so often off the markThat primarily and significantly applies to the "artists" (those who typically offer only design phases 1 to 4). Practitioners "know what butter costs in Hamburg." Most money, however, gets wasted by undisciplined clients (and those who try to save on the tender process).https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
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epinephrin12 Sep 2022 23:07WilderSueden schrieb:
The difference between the calculation of a general contractor (GC) and that of an architect is that the GC has to deliver for the agreed price. In this respect, the price is usually not the issue, but rather the construction specification. Thank you for the valuable tip! I'll keep that in mind.
And thank you for your house photo. It helps me a lot.
To be honest, I don’t really understand this entire thread!
The way you write, this thread or your question only arises because the general contractor (GC) is trying to persuade you to build a two-story house, claiming it is "allowed."
But what you actually want is something different. Now you’re looking for arguments to prove the GC right with his opinion and attitude.
Just because many are building city villas or, in @11ants’ words, "replacement villas," it doesn’t mean there is any social pressure to do so, nor have houses with knee walls lost their appeal. On the contrary: if the floor area ratio permits, people build with a knee wall so that a nice attic can be created within the roof. The gables offer options for placing windows. Knee walls and roof pitches create cozy rooms and a greater sense of comfort compared to plain bedrooms without sloping ceilings and rather simple interior designs. These roofs are also more resilient to storms.
So if there is a demand and taste for that style, you should be allowed to build it.
I wouldn’t let a GC convince me about such essential matters, nor any forum members you don’t even know.
Let the GC (and all others who prefer it) build their two-story house. It’s easier for the mason, after all: they just have to build straight up, while gables require more complex calculations.
If you like the house in the photo, why not use that as a reference?
If you need a bit less space upstairs, you could go down to about 120cm (47 inches), because space below 2 meters (6 ft 7 in) of standing height is not non-existent; it can also be used and lived in.
However, with 135cm (53 inches), there’s no issue with placing beds where the roof slopes down.
At 150/160cm (59/63 inches), in my opinion, the exterior wall starts to feel quite massive, and that might be where you want to set a limit if you don’t favor a two-story design.
No. It’s worth discussing your GC’s design here to identify any tight spots and possibly plan a niche instead of a zigzag wall—for a wardrobe or a piano, whatever 😉
The way you write, this thread or your question only arises because the general contractor (GC) is trying to persuade you to build a two-story house, claiming it is "allowed."
But what you actually want is something different. Now you’re looking for arguments to prove the GC right with his opinion and attitude.
Just because many are building city villas or, in @11ants’ words, "replacement villas," it doesn’t mean there is any social pressure to do so, nor have houses with knee walls lost their appeal. On the contrary: if the floor area ratio permits, people build with a knee wall so that a nice attic can be created within the roof. The gables offer options for placing windows. Knee walls and roof pitches create cozy rooms and a greater sense of comfort compared to plain bedrooms without sloping ceilings and rather simple interior designs. These roofs are also more resilient to storms.
So if there is a demand and taste for that style, you should be allowed to build it.
I wouldn’t let a GC convince me about such essential matters, nor any forum members you don’t even know.
Let the GC (and all others who prefer it) build their two-story house. It’s easier for the mason, after all: they just have to build straight up, while gables require more complex calculations.
epinephrin schrieb:
Now the question arises about the optimal story height and roof pitch.
If you like the house in the photo, why not use that as a reference?
If you need a bit less space upstairs, you could go down to about 120cm (47 inches), because space below 2 meters (6 ft 7 in) of standing height is not non-existent; it can also be used and lived in.
However, with 135cm (53 inches), there’s no issue with placing beds where the roof slopes down.
At 150/160cm (59/63 inches), in my opinion, the exterior wall starts to feel quite massive, and that might be where you want to set a limit if you don’t favor a two-story design.
epinephrin schrieb:
If it’s purely about room sizes, we ideally need 90 sqm (970 sq ft) on the ground floor and just under 75 sqm (807 sq ft) upstairs.
epinephrin schrieb:
I’ve read somewhere about the zigzag wall. Is it worth looking for it? 🙂
No. It’s worth discussing your GC’s design here to identify any tight spots and possibly plan a niche instead of a zigzag wall—for a wardrobe or a piano, whatever 😉
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epinephrin13 Sep 2022 11:26@ypg
This thread simply arises from my uncertainties as a building novice. I’m not looking for confirmation that the general contractor is right. On the contrary, I’m more looking for reassurance that, as a layperson, I’m not completely wrong if I prefer not to build exactly as the contractor recommends. Sometimes you feel like you should listen to others’ experiences. Personally, I just wanted some help from a community that doesn’t benefit from me, but still knows a lot more than I do. ;-) And that’s exactly what I’ve received here so far, along with some additional useful information that might be obvious to you but unfortunately isn’t yet to me.
At the right time, I will gladly have the floor plan reviewed in detail. But that time hasn’t come yet. 🙂
This thread simply arises from my uncertainties as a building novice. I’m not looking for confirmation that the general contractor is right. On the contrary, I’m more looking for reassurance that, as a layperson, I’m not completely wrong if I prefer not to build exactly as the contractor recommends. Sometimes you feel like you should listen to others’ experiences. Personally, I just wanted some help from a community that doesn’t benefit from me, but still knows a lot more than I do. ;-) And that’s exactly what I’ve received here so far, along with some additional useful information that might be obvious to you but unfortunately isn’t yet to me.
At the right time, I will gladly have the floor plan reviewed in detail. But that time hasn’t come yet. 🙂
ypg schrieb:
From what you write, this thread or your question only arises because the general contractor is trying to persuade you to build a two-story house since it is "allowed." That a full upper floor is definitely possible here (and under feasible conditions even a straight-wall upper floor) is a favorable framework. Given the expected room layout, this is also conveniently well-suited. And even a decision "in favor of the townhouse style" does not force you to design it as a so-called “replacement villa” (symmetry nightmare with smokey windows next to an XXL double garage with a wide-mouth door woodgrain in 7016).
If @epinephrin (by the way, are you a pharmacy technician, or how do you come up with such a forum name?) studies the implications of the knee wall acting as the window divider, I’m glad to hear that and hope it will be useful.
The general contractor has their own interests and should therefore always be just the contractor, not also the design consultant (though they may still have some worth considering construction suggestions in their portfolio). Fundamentally, they want only one thing: to get the contract and make a reasonable profit from the simple fact that "they think in cubic meters while the client thinks in square meters."
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
epinephrin schrieb:
We recently calculated with about €3000/m² (Leipzig metropolitan area) and that gives us approximately 165-170 m² (1776-1830 sq ft).Hello neighbor. Greetings from the south – Leipzig region. 😎Similar topics