ᐅ Heating System Upgrade for Existing Buildings – Condensing Boiler / Air-to-Water Heat Pump / Air Source Heat Pump
Created on: 9 Apr 2022 10:12
C
Chrizz72
Hello dear forum,
I am new here and this is my first post. I would be very grateful if anyone could help me with my question/problem.
Starting point:
We are about to buy a single-family house (built in 1959/60; living area approx. 170sqm (1830 sq ft) – 65sqm (700 sq ft) first floor, 65sqm (700 sq ft) second floor, 40sqm (430 sq ft) attic). The windows were replaced in 2005 (Uw-value 1.2), we will reroof and insulate the roof (U-value 0.14), possibly also insulate the basement ceiling – everything else is still in the “original condition.” Four of us will live in the house (2 adults + 2 children). The attic will be converted into living space. There is an old gas boiler (not condensing) in the basement and old cast iron radiators throughout the house. Additionally, we will renew the electrical system and renovate all the floors.
The key question now is: What heating system should we choose?
Since the house was previously occupied only by an elderly lady, there is no reliable data to estimate our future heating demand. Naturally, we would prefer to move away from fossil fuels and install an air-to-water heat pump combined with underfloor heating and photovoltaic panels (without subsidies, this would definitely cost about 65K) – however, this would exceed our budget. Without photovoltaic, I am also quite worried that the electricity costs could skyrocket. As a compromise, we have now focused on the following option: installation of a gas condensing boiler for heating and a domestic hot water heat pump (DHW HP) for hot water production – the ability to reduce the condensing boiler’s use during warmer months seems very attractive. Besides the cost aspect (which is completely acceptable to us, both initially and ongoing), the sustainability aspect also plays a role here (of course, a DHW HP alone is not a huge lever). At the same time, we are thinking about switching to underfloor heating on the ground floor and low-temperature radiators on the first and second floors. The idea behind this is to create an infrastructure that would allow us to switch to a heat pump fairly easily in the future. We would also gain reliable data regarding heat and heating demand. We wouldn’t have to install photovoltaic on the roof immediately but could add it later, either gradually or all at once.
How do you assess my approach? Does it sound realistic and reasonable to you, especially considering the current context (war, energy transition/costs, etc.)? I understand there is no perfect solution, but I would like to make a well-informed decision that makes economic and ecological sense in the short and long term. Maybe there are alternatives I haven’t considered yet.
A little about me: I am unfortunately not very skilled technically and have very little experience. However, I have noticed that I can quite quickly get to grips with unfamiliar topics and have a steeper learning curve than expected 🙂
I look forward to your feedback.
Best regards,
Christian
I am new here and this is my first post. I would be very grateful if anyone could help me with my question/problem.
Starting point:
We are about to buy a single-family house (built in 1959/60; living area approx. 170sqm (1830 sq ft) – 65sqm (700 sq ft) first floor, 65sqm (700 sq ft) second floor, 40sqm (430 sq ft) attic). The windows were replaced in 2005 (Uw-value 1.2), we will reroof and insulate the roof (U-value 0.14), possibly also insulate the basement ceiling – everything else is still in the “original condition.” Four of us will live in the house (2 adults + 2 children). The attic will be converted into living space. There is an old gas boiler (not condensing) in the basement and old cast iron radiators throughout the house. Additionally, we will renew the electrical system and renovate all the floors.
The key question now is: What heating system should we choose?
Since the house was previously occupied only by an elderly lady, there is no reliable data to estimate our future heating demand. Naturally, we would prefer to move away from fossil fuels and install an air-to-water heat pump combined with underfloor heating and photovoltaic panels (without subsidies, this would definitely cost about 65K) – however, this would exceed our budget. Without photovoltaic, I am also quite worried that the electricity costs could skyrocket. As a compromise, we have now focused on the following option: installation of a gas condensing boiler for heating and a domestic hot water heat pump (DHW HP) for hot water production – the ability to reduce the condensing boiler’s use during warmer months seems very attractive. Besides the cost aspect (which is completely acceptable to us, both initially and ongoing), the sustainability aspect also plays a role here (of course, a DHW HP alone is not a huge lever). At the same time, we are thinking about switching to underfloor heating on the ground floor and low-temperature radiators on the first and second floors. The idea behind this is to create an infrastructure that would allow us to switch to a heat pump fairly easily in the future. We would also gain reliable data regarding heat and heating demand. We wouldn’t have to install photovoltaic on the roof immediately but could add it later, either gradually or all at once.
How do you assess my approach? Does it sound realistic and reasonable to you, especially considering the current context (war, energy transition/costs, etc.)? I understand there is no perfect solution, but I would like to make a well-informed decision that makes economic and ecological sense in the short and long term. Maybe there are alternatives I haven’t considered yet.
A little about me: I am unfortunately not very skilled technically and have very little experience. However, I have noticed that I can quite quickly get to grips with unfamiliar topics and have a steeper learning curve than expected 🙂
I look forward to your feedback.
Best regards,
Christian
You can save a lot of money by doing some of the work yourself. Most of it doesn’t require much technical knowledge. As mentioned, have the underfloor heating system designed professionally, including a plan if possible.
Then remove the screed, insulate the basement ceiling, and install the underfloor heating yourself according to the plan. The air-to-water heat pump can also be installed as a monoblock system by yourself. There are good options from Panasonic in 5, 7, and 9 kW. The biggest cost factor will then be the new screed, since you’ll probably have to hire that out. I estimate the total system will cost around 20,000 (currency), excluding labor savings. It takes time, effort, and some courage, but it is doable and manageable even for beginners.
Then remove the screed, insulate the basement ceiling, and install the underfloor heating yourself according to the plan. The air-to-water heat pump can also be installed as a monoblock system by yourself. There are good options from Panasonic in 5, 7, and 9 kW. The biggest cost factor will then be the new screed, since you’ll probably have to hire that out. I estimate the total system will cost around 20,000 (currency), excluding labor savings. It takes time, effort, and some courage, but it is doable and manageable even for beginners.
B
Benutzer20010 Apr 2022 13:37Joedreck schrieb:
Then remove the screed, insulate the basement ceiling, and install the underfloor heating yourself according to the plan. The air-to-water heat pump can also be installed as a monoblock unit by yourself. There are good options from Panasonic available in 5, 7, and 9 kW. The biggest cost factor will be the new screed, since you will likely have that done by professionals. I estimate the total cost for the whole system to be around 20,000 (20k). It takes time, effort, and some courage, but it is feasible and manageable even for beginners.I bet on a lower price in EL 😉Benutzer200 schrieb:
I bet on the price! It will be cheaper in EL 😉I wouldn't bet on that, since I don't know the price per square meter of screed :-)B
Benutzer20010 Apr 2022 18:34Joedreck schrieb:
I wouldn’t bet on it because I don’t know the price per square meter for screed 🙂Estimate around €20 per square meter (m²). Or, allowing for price increases, say €25 per square meter (m²). This is based on a thickness of 5–6 cm (2–2.4 inches).Joedreck schrieb:
You can save a lot of costs by doing the work yourself. For most tasks, you don’t need much technical understanding. As mentioned, have the underfloor heating system designed professionally, including the plan if possible. Then remove the screed, insulate the basement ceiling, and install the underfloor heating yourself according to the plan. The air-to-water heat pump can also be installed as a monoblock unit by yourself. There are good options from Panasonic in 5, 7, and 9 kW. The biggest cost factor is the new screed because you will likely have that done by professionals. I estimate the total system cost to be around 20,000 (twenty thousand). It requires time, effort, and some courage, but it’s doable and manageable even for beginners. I am willing and able to do some of the work myself, but especially in the heating area, I prefer to leave it to professionals. I have received a quote from the heating contractor for around 45,000 (forty-five thousand), including the necessary screed work for underfloor heating on all floors (heat pump is a Weishaupt Biblock type WBB 12 A RMD AI). I will commission a heat load calculation as well as the design of the underfloor heating and low-temperature radiators (we want those on the 1st and 2nd floors). With that, I will approach the contractor again and ask him to adjust his offer and services accordingly. That sounds like a good plan to me – hopefully it works out that way.
D
Deliverer10 Apr 2022 19:43Chrizz72 schrieb:
Approx. 45k including the necessary screed work for underfloor heating on all floors 45k for heat pump, installation, and underfloor heating everywhere? I would sign up immediately!
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