Hello, my name is Stephan,
I am new here and would like to ask for your advice. We currently have two options and are unsure which one is better!?
1) Used residential house built in 1957 on a plot of about 900 sqm (9700 sq ft).
130 sqm (1400 sq ft) living space, plus basement and the option to convert the attic.
Purchase price 150,000 euros, the clay tile roof is still in very good condition, possibly a dry ridge vent could be added.
A new electrical distribution board with residual current device (RCD) and breakers, electrical wiring, fresh water pipes made of copper, as well as new wooden windows and shutters were installed in 1993. The guest toilet and bathroom were also renovated in 1993. Rockwool insulation was blown into the double-layer masonry and into the sloping roof of the first floor and dormers in 2002.
The following measures must or should be carried out:
1. Replacement of the old oil heating system and removal of the oil tanks, replacing it with a new gas condensing boiler, partial installation of radiators in some basement rooms and the attic. The gas line must be installed by the utility company.
2. Walling up the heating niches with aerated concrete blocks (Ytong) and adding radiator covers.
3. Insulation of the roller shutter boxes.
4. Removal of the old plastered sloping ceilings on the first floor and installing proper thickness insulation after doubling the rafters, new drywall panels, wallpapering.
5. Conversion of the attic with two Velux windows, doubling rafters, insulation, drywall, wallpapering.
6. Electrical wiring still needs to be installed in the attic, and all rooms on the first floor should have separate circuit protection.
7. Removal of the three-chamber septic system and an unused water cistern.
8. Complete renovation of the entire west side of the house: the plaster is cracking in many places and also detaching from the window reveals. Some patchwork plastering was done by the current owner. The plaster must be completely removed down to the masonry and redone.
9. Removal of the basement stairs, walling up the basement entrance, application of bitumen slurry and bitumen.
10. Floor coverings: tiles in the hallway, parquet in the living room and bedroom, laminate in the attic.
11. New interior doors.
For all of this, I have calculated a total of 255,000 euros including purchase price, realtor fees, transfer tax, and notary fees.
My concern is the heating costs, as I have no idea how this house compares in energy efficiency to a new build.
2) The alternative would be a 170 sqm (1830 sq ft) new build without a basement, located 8.5 km (5.3 miles) outside the city on a plot of nearly 600 sqm (6500 sq ft).
The total cost here would be 290,000 euros. The disadvantage is the somewhat longer commute, no basement, only a utility room. The advantage is everything is new and built to our specifications.
Financing-wise, the monthly cost would be about 65 euros higher than buying and renovating the used property.
I look forward to your opinions.
Best regards,
Stephan
I am new here and would like to ask for your advice. We currently have two options and are unsure which one is better!?
1) Used residential house built in 1957 on a plot of about 900 sqm (9700 sq ft).
130 sqm (1400 sq ft) living space, plus basement and the option to convert the attic.
Purchase price 150,000 euros, the clay tile roof is still in very good condition, possibly a dry ridge vent could be added.
A new electrical distribution board with residual current device (RCD) and breakers, electrical wiring, fresh water pipes made of copper, as well as new wooden windows and shutters were installed in 1993. The guest toilet and bathroom were also renovated in 1993. Rockwool insulation was blown into the double-layer masonry and into the sloping roof of the first floor and dormers in 2002.
The following measures must or should be carried out:
1. Replacement of the old oil heating system and removal of the oil tanks, replacing it with a new gas condensing boiler, partial installation of radiators in some basement rooms and the attic. The gas line must be installed by the utility company.
2. Walling up the heating niches with aerated concrete blocks (Ytong) and adding radiator covers.
3. Insulation of the roller shutter boxes.
4. Removal of the old plastered sloping ceilings on the first floor and installing proper thickness insulation after doubling the rafters, new drywall panels, wallpapering.
5. Conversion of the attic with two Velux windows, doubling rafters, insulation, drywall, wallpapering.
6. Electrical wiring still needs to be installed in the attic, and all rooms on the first floor should have separate circuit protection.
7. Removal of the three-chamber septic system and an unused water cistern.
8. Complete renovation of the entire west side of the house: the plaster is cracking in many places and also detaching from the window reveals. Some patchwork plastering was done by the current owner. The plaster must be completely removed down to the masonry and redone.
9. Removal of the basement stairs, walling up the basement entrance, application of bitumen slurry and bitumen.
10. Floor coverings: tiles in the hallway, parquet in the living room and bedroom, laminate in the attic.
11. New interior doors.
For all of this, I have calculated a total of 255,000 euros including purchase price, realtor fees, transfer tax, and notary fees.
My concern is the heating costs, as I have no idea how this house compares in energy efficiency to a new build.
2) The alternative would be a 170 sqm (1830 sq ft) new build without a basement, located 8.5 km (5.3 miles) outside the city on a plot of nearly 600 sqm (6500 sq ft).
The total cost here would be 290,000 euros. The disadvantage is the somewhat longer commute, no basement, only a utility room. The advantage is everything is new and built to our specifications.
Financing-wise, the monthly cost would be about 65 euros higher than buying and renovating the used property.
I look forward to your opinions.
Best regards,
Stephan
Remote diagnosis is rather difficult – but we faced a similar decision, although our subdivision house (built in 1955) was probably in even worse condition. An architect estimated renovation costs at around 150,000 euros – including external insulation, new bathrooms, and basement waterproofing. However, she also warned that you can still encounter quite a few surprises...
According to the energy performance certificate (which you should have as well, right?), the heating costs were 442 kWh/m² per year (per annum)... so 57,000 kWh per year (also 130 m² (1400 square feet)) – a whopping 3,400 euros annually. For a new build, you can comfortably expect around 600 euros.
For us, it came down to that, combined with our lack of DIY skills and no available time, which made the used property unfeasible.
Otherwise: is the location of the old building better? Do you like the neighborhood? Does the size and layout of the rooms suit you? Do you feel at home when walking through it? How much of the 150,000 euros is the land, and how much is really the house?
According to the energy performance certificate (which you should have as well, right?), the heating costs were 442 kWh/m² per year (per annum)... so 57,000 kWh per year (also 130 m² (1400 square feet)) – a whopping 3,400 euros annually. For a new build, you can comfortably expect around 600 euros.
For us, it came down to that, combined with our lack of DIY skills and no available time, which made the used property unfeasible.
Otherwise: is the location of the old building better? Do you like the neighborhood? Does the size and layout of the rooms suit you? Do you feel at home when walking through it? How much of the 150,000 euros is the land, and how much is really the house?
Hello Stephan,
Just off the top of my head, I don’t think you’ll manage with renovation costs of €90,000 (purchase price €150,000 + 10% additional costs = €165,000), but ultimately you have to assess it based on the property, which of course nobody here knows. You can quickly spend an extra €10,000 on something like a loft conversion or flooring, so you really need to take a close look at what exactly needs to be done and how.
For the renovation, I would be prepared for financing/total costs of around €300,000. You could try to approach it with €255,000 in costs and keep a €45,000 buffer—and when renovating an older building, unexpected expenses can come up quickly if you realize during gutting or remodeling that the originally planned solution isn’t what you want.
A small addition about the roof windows: install at least four; otherwise, you’ll have very little natural light and limited ventilation/cross-breeze in the summer.
Best regards,
Dirk Grafe
Just off the top of my head, I don’t think you’ll manage with renovation costs of €90,000 (purchase price €150,000 + 10% additional costs = €165,000), but ultimately you have to assess it based on the property, which of course nobody here knows. You can quickly spend an extra €10,000 on something like a loft conversion or flooring, so you really need to take a close look at what exactly needs to be done and how.
For the renovation, I would be prepared for financing/total costs of around €300,000. You could try to approach it with €255,000 in costs and keep a €45,000 buffer—and when renovating an older building, unexpected expenses can come up quickly if you realize during gutting or remodeling that the originally planned solution isn’t what you want.
A small addition about the roof windows: install at least four; otherwise, you’ll have very little natural light and limited ventilation/cross-breeze in the summer.
Best regards,
Dirk Grafe
Hello,
Thank you for your helpful comments. One aspect I am particularly interested in is the heating costs of a house built in 1957 compared to a new build. I understand that this can be difficult to compare accurately.
Here are the conditions:
130 m² (1400 sq ft) of living space, plus an unheated basement, and an attic of about 40 m² (430 sq ft) that will be converted.
Terraced house built in 1957.
I would really appreciate your assessment.
Best regards,
Stephan
Thank you for your helpful comments. One aspect I am particularly interested in is the heating costs of a house built in 1957 compared to a new build. I understand that this can be difficult to compare accurately.
Here are the conditions:
130 m² (1400 sq ft) of living space, plus an unheated basement, and an attic of about 40 m² (430 sq ft) that will be converted.
Terraced house built in 1957.
- Blown-in insulation added to the double-layer masonry with Rockwool (installed in 2002)
- Wooden windows from 1993 (I’m unsure whether to replace them with triple-glazed units)
- Gas condensing boiler combined with solar thermal panels for domestic hot water (I plan to install this)
- Insulation between rafters in the sloped roof (what thickness would be advisable?)
- Insulation of roller shutter boxes
- Filling radiator niches with aerated concrete blocks (Ytong)
I would really appreciate your assessment.
Best regards,
Stephan
442 kWh/m²a in the old building and then maybe around 80-120 kWh/m²a after renovation (but this can only be reliably told to you by someone involved in the renovation, or if you do it yourself, you’ll find out after the experience, or you try to gather all relevant information (which surfaces, which materials, how thick is the air layer, etc.).
Can you even insulate between the rafters that easily? Often the rafters aren’t that big. Is the attic converted? Then it’s better to insulate the ceiling to the attic and only the sloping roof surfaces. We insulate new buildings with 24 cm (9.5 inches).
Can you even insulate between the rafters that easily? Often the rafters aren’t that big. Is the attic converted? Then it’s better to insulate the ceiling to the attic and only the sloping roof surfaces. We insulate new buildings with 24 cm (9.5 inches).
Hello,
thanks again for the reply. In the meantime, I have seen the energy performance certificate and also spoken with the previous tenants who lived there for four years. The house has an energy demand of 264 kWh/m² per year, and the previous tenants mentioned heating costs of 3,000 euros for 130m² (1,400 ft²). They lived in the house until early 2014, when heating oil cost around 0.80 euros per liter (3.03 USD per gallon). That corresponds to a consumption of 3,750 liters (990 gallons), which I find extremely high.
My question now is, where is still potential to save energy through insulation, etc.?
My concern is simply that energy costs may not be reduced enough. We currently live in a semi-detached house built in 2003 with 134m² (1,440 ft²) and had heating costs—including hot water—of 850 euros (about 1,015 USD) from January 2014 to January 2015.
Seeing the difference really makes you think.
Best regards
Stephan
thanks again for the reply. In the meantime, I have seen the energy performance certificate and also spoken with the previous tenants who lived there for four years. The house has an energy demand of 264 kWh/m² per year, and the previous tenants mentioned heating costs of 3,000 euros for 130m² (1,400 ft²). They lived in the house until early 2014, when heating oil cost around 0.80 euros per liter (3.03 USD per gallon). That corresponds to a consumption of 3,750 liters (990 gallons), which I find extremely high.
My question now is, where is still potential to save energy through insulation, etc.?
- The windows are from 1993; would it make sense to replace them with new ones?
- Okay, the current heating system from 1987 will be replaced by a gas condensing boiler.
- The sloped ceilings on the first floor definitely need to be addressed; I plan to add extra layers of insulation here, and the top floor ceiling will also be insulated.
- Nothing can be done to the facade—the cavity wall was already filled with Rockwool insulation back in 2002.
My concern is simply that energy costs may not be reduced enough. We currently live in a semi-detached house built in 2003 with 134m² (1,440 ft²) and had heating costs—including hot water—of 850 euros (about 1,015 USD) from January 2014 to January 2015.
Seeing the difference really makes you think.
Best regards
Stephan
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