ᐅ Question: Prefabricated house or traditional solid construction? Underground garage, etc.
Created on: 25 Aug 2012 19:23
T
Totti-AmunT
Totti-Amun25 Aug 2012 19:23Hello everyone,
We have been trying to buy a used house for the past one and a half years, where my company could also have a spacious office and showroom. But it hasn’t worked out—there is always some issue. The good houses have already been sold elsewhere due to the low mortgage rates.
We have owned a townhouse (mid-terrace) for 10 years. It’s just no longer suitable for us and is planned to be sold.
So now we’ve come up with the idea to build new. In principle, it’s quite simple, but at the same time very challenging.
The idea now is maybe to order a prefab house. However, recent spontaneous visits to a few prefab homes have been quite disappointing since we basically received no information. They said that would only be provided in an in-depth conversation with a sales representative. Massa Haus, Allkauf Haus, Okal Haus. I couldn’t even get basic information about what exactly would be delivered if I ordered a model XYZ in the standard version. For example, are interior walls already included and covered or insulated with drywall or similar, or do I have a large open space on the ground floor where I see the outside cladding? After three inquiries, I was only referred to a sales advisor meeting, with no direct answers.
Okay, fine... I also understand that they want to make money on the extras, and a standard house in the base configuration is probably not desired for sales.
Now, here is what I have in mind:
Maybe someone can just quickly tell me what would be a better choice for us and what might actually make more sense.
I am 42 years old, self-employed, working from home (online retail and home office for another company), my wife is 36 years old and works outside. No children, 3 cats. 😉
Ideal scenario, putting aside the yet-to-be-found plot of land, which must be at least 1,000sqm (10,764 sq ft):
A detached single-family house, living area 130-140sqm (1,400-1,500 sq ft).
Ground floor: only kitchen (possibly with a pantry), living room and dining area, guest toilet. No other rooms needed.
Upper floor: bedroom and 2 rooms, one for me and one for my wife. Also the bathroom with shower and bathtub.
Basement: standard ceiling height, 2 rooms for utility/laundry and one for storage. Also a very large room for office and showroom for me, plus another room for hobbies/mini workshop. The basement or semi-basement should be accessible from outside, ideally with a wide ramp leading down, stairs are not preferred. I am also thinking of building the basement larger than the house to have more space for my business activities, for example by basementing under the terrace.
Dream idea: Since a downward sloping ramp is to be built anyway, why not make it 3m (10 feet) wide as a driveway leading straight into an underground garage? The advantage would be no garages on the plot; on top just level lawn or terrace, and that’s perfect. Reason: I have 2 classic cars in addition to my regular car and 2 trailers—all could be stored there protected from weather. Size about 8m x 7m (26 x 23 feet). Possibly with access to the basement as well. I don’t know if something like that is feasible or what requirements it would have, or if it can be built everywhere.
My wife will have a 1.5-car garage where the lawnmower and so on will also go.
I want to draw a sketch to show how I imagine this whole basement and underground garage setup...
Heating: Dream would be geothermal energy. So underfloor heating. A few solar panels will probably go on the roof, and the house must have a fireplace for 1 or 2 open fire places. That’s a bit of a quirk of mine—I want to be able to survive inside the house during a power outage in winter... 😉
Super dream: Swimming pool in the garden. I recently read a very interesting report where someone continuously directs excess heat into their pool, essentially using it as storage instead of wasting it.
That’s it...
Since we don’t have children and don’t plan to, the house theoretically only needs to last 40 years, after that it doesn’t matter… This would be a point in favor of prefab and against a solid house build.
Those are the basic conditions.
If you build this kind of setup into the ground, does it make sense to simply place a prefab house on top, or is that nonsense and building a solid structure like a cube or similar from the start would be better?
Of course, we also need to discuss costs in this context:
What would be cheaper for me once the basement is finished?
Who can just tell me what the fundamental disadvantages of a prefab house are? The knock test on the walls of the prefab houses I have seen all passed; they sounded quite solid.
Many thanks in advance,
Totti
P.S. I should maybe add that I am actually a trained carpenter (construction and furniture), although I don’t work in the profession anymore. That means I am even willing to contribute some amount of work myself, but limited. Limited means limited—I need to take care of my company a few hours every day. But installing windows is no problem, especially since prefab houses are prepared for that. Also interior doors and similar stuff are no issue. However, I’m not interested in drywall work like filling and sanding.
We have been trying to buy a used house for the past one and a half years, where my company could also have a spacious office and showroom. But it hasn’t worked out—there is always some issue. The good houses have already been sold elsewhere due to the low mortgage rates.
We have owned a townhouse (mid-terrace) for 10 years. It’s just no longer suitable for us and is planned to be sold.
So now we’ve come up with the idea to build new. In principle, it’s quite simple, but at the same time very challenging.
The idea now is maybe to order a prefab house. However, recent spontaneous visits to a few prefab homes have been quite disappointing since we basically received no information. They said that would only be provided in an in-depth conversation with a sales representative. Massa Haus, Allkauf Haus, Okal Haus. I couldn’t even get basic information about what exactly would be delivered if I ordered a model XYZ in the standard version. For example, are interior walls already included and covered or insulated with drywall or similar, or do I have a large open space on the ground floor where I see the outside cladding? After three inquiries, I was only referred to a sales advisor meeting, with no direct answers.
Okay, fine... I also understand that they want to make money on the extras, and a standard house in the base configuration is probably not desired for sales.
Now, here is what I have in mind:
Maybe someone can just quickly tell me what would be a better choice for us and what might actually make more sense.
I am 42 years old, self-employed, working from home (online retail and home office for another company), my wife is 36 years old and works outside. No children, 3 cats. 😉
Ideal scenario, putting aside the yet-to-be-found plot of land, which must be at least 1,000sqm (10,764 sq ft):
A detached single-family house, living area 130-140sqm (1,400-1,500 sq ft).
Ground floor: only kitchen (possibly with a pantry), living room and dining area, guest toilet. No other rooms needed.
Upper floor: bedroom and 2 rooms, one for me and one for my wife. Also the bathroom with shower and bathtub.
Basement: standard ceiling height, 2 rooms for utility/laundry and one for storage. Also a very large room for office and showroom for me, plus another room for hobbies/mini workshop. The basement or semi-basement should be accessible from outside, ideally with a wide ramp leading down, stairs are not preferred. I am also thinking of building the basement larger than the house to have more space for my business activities, for example by basementing under the terrace.
Dream idea: Since a downward sloping ramp is to be built anyway, why not make it 3m (10 feet) wide as a driveway leading straight into an underground garage? The advantage would be no garages on the plot; on top just level lawn or terrace, and that’s perfect. Reason: I have 2 classic cars in addition to my regular car and 2 trailers—all could be stored there protected from weather. Size about 8m x 7m (26 x 23 feet). Possibly with access to the basement as well. I don’t know if something like that is feasible or what requirements it would have, or if it can be built everywhere.
My wife will have a 1.5-car garage where the lawnmower and so on will also go.
I want to draw a sketch to show how I imagine this whole basement and underground garage setup...
Heating: Dream would be geothermal energy. So underfloor heating. A few solar panels will probably go on the roof, and the house must have a fireplace for 1 or 2 open fire places. That’s a bit of a quirk of mine—I want to be able to survive inside the house during a power outage in winter... 😉
Super dream: Swimming pool in the garden. I recently read a very interesting report where someone continuously directs excess heat into their pool, essentially using it as storage instead of wasting it.
That’s it...
Since we don’t have children and don’t plan to, the house theoretically only needs to last 40 years, after that it doesn’t matter… This would be a point in favor of prefab and against a solid house build.
Those are the basic conditions.
If you build this kind of setup into the ground, does it make sense to simply place a prefab house on top, or is that nonsense and building a solid structure like a cube or similar from the start would be better?
Of course, we also need to discuss costs in this context:
What would be cheaper for me once the basement is finished?
Who can just tell me what the fundamental disadvantages of a prefab house are? The knock test on the walls of the prefab houses I have seen all passed; they sounded quite solid.
Many thanks in advance,
Totti
P.S. I should maybe add that I am actually a trained carpenter (construction and furniture), although I don’t work in the profession anymore. That means I am even willing to contribute some amount of work myself, but limited. Limited means limited—I need to take care of my company a few hours every day. But installing windows is no problem, especially since prefab houses are prepared for that. Also interior doors and similar stuff are no issue. However, I’m not interested in drywall work like filling and sanding.
B
Bauexperte25 Aug 2012 23:03Hello Totti,
Did you make sure to pick the right ones? 🙄
So far, the cost is around EUR 210,000 for a solidly built single-family home with 140 sqm (1500 sqft) of net living area, constructed according to energy saving regulations, excluding painting and floor coverings.
Price estimate: about EUR 50,000.
The ramp, about 15.0 m (50 feet) long, should cost roughly EUR 4,000, and a fully cellar-equipped terrace (9.00 x 4.00 m / 30 x 13 feet) would add another EUR 30,000 overall.
So, a total of 5 parking spots. Typically, the rough cost for a standard underground parking space is about EUR 25,000 each; for a garage like you describe, budget around EUR 30,000 per space. Additionally, ventilation is required, and in your case, climate control for the vintage cars. It’s hard to estimate, but expect roughly another EUR 20,000.
A garage about 3.00 x 9.00 m (10 x 30 feet), including sectional door, costs approximately EUR 10,000 as a prefab garage.
Geothermal depends heavily on the building location. Large energy companies are digging extensively, lowering the groundwater level. Otherwise, a geothermal heat pump with a 100 m (330 feet) borehole costs about EUR 15,000. The chimney flue, dual duct from basement to roof, costs approximately EUR 5,000.
Decide on this once you are comfortable with the numbers so far; pools involve significant ongoing costs.
Since this project requires different suppliers than your initial prefab house attempts — different caliber of manufacturers — the answer is clear: the solid house builder.
Both construction methods have their advantages and disadvantages. Ultimately, your personal gut feeling will decide between solid and prefab construction.
Best regards
Totti-Amun schrieb:
However, the few spontaneous visits to some prefab houses today were quite disappointing...
Did you make sure to pick the right ones? 🙄
Totti-Amun schrieb:
Now, what I have in mind:
Detached single-family house, living area 130-140sqm (1400-1500 sqft).
So far, the cost is around EUR 210,000 for a solidly built single-family home with 140 sqm (1500 sqft) of net living area, constructed according to energy saving regulations, excluding painting and floor coverings.
Totti-Amun schrieb:
Basement: Standard ceiling height, 2 rooms for utility/laundry, and one for storage. Also, a very large room as an office and showroom for me, plus another room for hobbies/mini workshop.
Price estimate: about EUR 50,000.
Totti-Amun schrieb:
The basement or lower ground floor should be accessible from outside, ideally with a wide ramp leading down; I don’t want stairs. I’m also considering building the basement larger than the house to have more space for my business activities, for example, by placing the terrace above a cellar.
The ramp, about 15.0 m (50 feet) long, should cost roughly EUR 4,000, and a fully cellar-equipped terrace (9.00 x 4.00 m / 30 x 13 feet) would add another EUR 30,000 overall.
Totti-Amun schrieb:
Dream idea: Since a downward slope is to be built anyway, make it 3 m (10 feet) wide as a straight driveway into an underground garage. Advantage: no garages on the property, with lawn or terrace at ground level on top. Reason: I have 2 vintage cars in addition to my regular car and 2 trailers, all could be stored there, protected from the weather. Size about 8m x 7m (26 x 23 feet). Possibly with access to the basement as well.
I don’t know if this is feasible budget-wise or permitted everywhere, or what requirements it would need to meet.
So, a total of 5 parking spots. Typically, the rough cost for a standard underground parking space is about EUR 25,000 each; for a garage like you describe, budget around EUR 30,000 per space. Additionally, ventilation is required, and in your case, climate control for the vintage cars. It’s hard to estimate, but expect roughly another EUR 20,000.
Totti-Amun schrieb:
My wife will have a garage 1.5 m (5 feet) long, where the lawnmower and other items should fit as well.
A garage about 3.00 x 9.00 m (10 x 30 feet), including sectional door, costs approximately EUR 10,000 as a prefab garage.
Totti-Amun schrieb:
Heating: Dream would be geothermal heat with underfloor heating. A few solar panels will probably go on the roof, plus the house must have a chimney for 1 or 2 open fireplaces. It’s a quirk of mine; I want to be able to survive indoors during a winter power outage...
Geothermal depends heavily on the building location. Large energy companies are digging extensively, lowering the groundwater level. Otherwise, a geothermal heat pump with a 100 m (330 feet) borehole costs about EUR 15,000. The chimney flue, dual duct from basement to roof, costs approximately EUR 5,000.
Totti-Amun schrieb:
Super dream: Swimming pool in the garden. I recently read an interesting report where someone continuously channels excess heat into their pool as a storage system instead of wasting it.
Decide on this once you are comfortable with the numbers so far; pools involve significant ongoing costs.
Totti-Amun schrieb:
What would be cheaper after the basement is finished?
Since this project requires different suppliers than your initial prefab house attempts — different caliber of manufacturers — the answer is clear: the solid house builder.
Totti-Amun schrieb:
Who can simply tell me what the basic disadvantages of a prefab house are? The knock test on the walls in the prefab houses today felt solid in all cases.
Both construction methods have their advantages and disadvantages. Ultimately, your personal gut feeling will decide between solid and prefab construction.
Best regards
T
Totti-Amun29 Aug 2012 10:05Hello building expert,
thank you in advance for your feedback.
One question: With a standard ceiling height for the basement and underground garage, how long should the ramp approximately be? Are there any practical experiences regarding this, to avoid a regular, non-lowered vehicle scraping the bottom?
Are there general uncertainties with an underground garage? In other words, can I submit a normal building permit / planning permission for it, and is it basically allowed on any buildable plot? It is important for me to know if I would have to place 5 to 6 garages above ground, or if it is possible to have everything reasonably hidden in the end.
I understand that the final decision lies with the city, but is something like this usually more likely to be rejected than just 5 garages? Who has experience?
Regards
Totti
thank you in advance for your feedback.
One question: With a standard ceiling height for the basement and underground garage, how long should the ramp approximately be? Are there any practical experiences regarding this, to avoid a regular, non-lowered vehicle scraping the bottom?
Are there general uncertainties with an underground garage? In other words, can I submit a normal building permit / planning permission for it, and is it basically allowed on any buildable plot? It is important for me to know if I would have to place 5 to 6 garages above ground, or if it is possible to have everything reasonably hidden in the end.
I understand that the final decision lies with the city, but is something like this usually more likely to be rejected than just 5 garages? Who has experience?
Regards
Totti
Hello Totti,
In our community, underground garages are only rejected if they are located within the water protection area. Otherwise, the municipality appreciates every additional parking space you build. We have a parking space regulation that specifies how many parking spaces are allowed. In areas with a development plan (zoning plan), it dictates whether you are allowed to build an underground garage and how large it may be. Without a development plan, underground garages are often approved here even if they lie outside the building boundaries and do not comply with setback requirements. So generally: yes, underground garages are frequently approved in our area.
You need to apply for a permit – whether you are allowed to build depends on the property itself. But you can apply for anything. Sometimes exceptions are granted even if there are prohibitions – it always depends on the current attitude of the committee.
Regarding the ramp: In our town, there are some very steep slopes – in one specific case, the local council approved it, but the district authority vetoed the plan because the slope was too extreme. So not everything is possible, but quite a lot is.
In our community, underground garages are only rejected if they are located within the water protection area. Otherwise, the municipality appreciates every additional parking space you build. We have a parking space regulation that specifies how many parking spaces are allowed. In areas with a development plan (zoning plan), it dictates whether you are allowed to build an underground garage and how large it may be. Without a development plan, underground garages are often approved here even if they lie outside the building boundaries and do not comply with setback requirements. So generally: yes, underground garages are frequently approved in our area.
You need to apply for a permit – whether you are allowed to build depends on the property itself. But you can apply for anything. Sometimes exceptions are granted even if there are prohibitions – it always depends on the current attitude of the committee.
Regarding the ramp: In our town, there are some very steep slopes – in one specific case, the local council approved it, but the district authority vetoed the plan because the slope was too extreme. So not everything is possible, but quite a lot is.
T
Totti-Amun29 Aug 2012 11:58Okay, thanks in advance.
This will be a single-family house with a completely private underground garage. But I still think it looks better visually than placing 5-6 garages on a roughly 700–1,000 m² (7,535–10,764 sq ft) lot. Plus, I can use the space on the garage roof as lawn area, extended terrace, or whatever else...
I will have a drawing made, so we can submit a preliminary inquiry to the relevant city authorities.
But first, the search for a plot of land begins. Until about two weeks ago, we were still considering buying a used property. But there has been nothing available for the past 1.5 years.
The plot should be in North Rhine-Westphalia, within the triangle formed by Essen → Mettmann → Wuppertal → Sprockhövel. The closer to Bredeney, the better (that's where my wife works). Absolute quietness is a basic requirement, preferably in a rural setting. No through roads.
Just what everyone’s looking for… 😀
Best regards
Totti
This will be a single-family house with a completely private underground garage. But I still think it looks better visually than placing 5-6 garages on a roughly 700–1,000 m² (7,535–10,764 sq ft) lot. Plus, I can use the space on the garage roof as lawn area, extended terrace, or whatever else...
I will have a drawing made, so we can submit a preliminary inquiry to the relevant city authorities.
But first, the search for a plot of land begins. Until about two weeks ago, we were still considering buying a used property. But there has been nothing available for the past 1.5 years.
The plot should be in North Rhine-Westphalia, within the triangle formed by Essen → Mettmann → Wuppertal → Sprockhövel. The closer to Bredeney, the better (that's where my wife works). Absolute quietness is a basic requirement, preferably in a rural setting. No through roads.
Just what everyone’s looking for… 😀
Best regards
Totti
B
Bauexperte29 Aug 2012 13:16Hello,
regarding your questions, TG has already been answered correctly by the previous poster.
Kind regards
regarding your questions, TG has already been answered correctly by the previous poster.
Totti-Amun schrieb:First, find the plot of land :-)
I will have a drawing made, so that a preliminary inquiry can be submitted to the respective city.
Totti-Amun schrieb:It’s all a matter of budget :-) Essen => expensive, Wuppertal => plots affordable, but quite hilly, so additional costs for basement and underground garage, Mettmann => expensive.
The plot should be in NRW, in the triangle between Essen -> Mettmann -> Wuppertal -> Sprockhövel. The closer to Bredeney, the better (my wife works there). Absolute quiet location is a basic requirement, preferably rural. No through roads.
Kind regards
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