Dear forum members,
My wife and I are currently in the building permit / planning permission phase, constructing a staggered shed roof house in Rhineland-Palatinate (10.25 x 8.50 x 9.75 m (33.6 x 27.9 x 32.0 ft)). During the quotation phase, we changed the masonry from 36.5 cm (14.4 inches) aerated concrete to calcium silicate brick with an external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS) of 24 x 14 cm (9.4 x 5.5 inches) for sound insulation reasons, but the basic dimensions remained the same. Yesterday, I received an additional charge regarding the eaves overhangs on the side of the roof. Our building contractor wants to charge us extra because the eaves overhang has allegedly increased by about 14 mm (0.55 inches), which corresponds to the thickness of the ETICS.
When using calcium silicate brick plus ETICS, is the eaves overhang measured from the masonry wall? The construction and scope of work description specified "approximately 65 cm (25.6 inches) on the eaves side and approximately 30 cm (11.8 inches) on the gable side." As a layperson, I assume these measurements refer to the outer edges of the building (including the ETICS). However, from the outside edge of the ETICS, we only have about 51 cm (20.1 inches) on the eaves side and just 16 cm (6.3 inches) on the gable side. Is this correct?
It would be great if someone could provide some insight.
Best regards,
Marco
My wife and I are currently in the building permit / planning permission phase, constructing a staggered shed roof house in Rhineland-Palatinate (10.25 x 8.50 x 9.75 m (33.6 x 27.9 x 32.0 ft)). During the quotation phase, we changed the masonry from 36.5 cm (14.4 inches) aerated concrete to calcium silicate brick with an external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS) of 24 x 14 cm (9.4 x 5.5 inches) for sound insulation reasons, but the basic dimensions remained the same. Yesterday, I received an additional charge regarding the eaves overhangs on the side of the roof. Our building contractor wants to charge us extra because the eaves overhang has allegedly increased by about 14 mm (0.55 inches), which corresponds to the thickness of the ETICS.
When using calcium silicate brick plus ETICS, is the eaves overhang measured from the masonry wall? The construction and scope of work description specified "approximately 65 cm (25.6 inches) on the eaves side and approximately 30 cm (11.8 inches) on the gable side." As a layperson, I assume these measurements refer to the outer edges of the building (including the ETICS). However, from the outside edge of the ETICS, we only have about 51 cm (20.1 inches) on the eaves side and just 16 cm (6.3 inches) on the gable side. Is this correct?
It would be great if someone could provide some insight.
Best regards,
Marco
Hi Bauexperte,
thank you as well for your response.
Regards,
Marco
thank you as well for your response.
Bauexperte schrieb:
Hello Marco,
Are you referring to the change order? What exactly did you originally sign, meaning the actual construction contract? How is the wall structure (aerated concrete/poroton) described there?
We signed off on 24 cm (9.5 inches) sand-lime brick with external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS) plus mesh reinforcement and plaster.
If my calculation => "Original masonry 36.5 cm (14.4 inches) plus 2.5 cm (1 inch) mineral external plaster = 39 cm (15.4 inches); now sand-lime brick 24 cm (9.5 inches) plus ETICS 14 cm (5.5 inches) plus synthetic plaster 1.5 cm (0.6 inches) – results in a wall thickness of 39.5 cm (15.6 inches). According to my calculation, your general contractor made an error, unless they are applying 2.5 cm (1 inch) synthetic resin plaster, then their change order is correct" is correct, additional costs arise for only 1.4 cm (0.6 inches), since the exterior wall structure changes only minimally.
Further down you write => "Now from the outside edge of the ETICS there is only about 51 cm (20 inches) on the eave side and only 16 cm (6.3 inches) on the gable side" THAT cannot be right, because you would lose 14 cm (5.5 inches). There must be a misunderstanding or communication error somewhere.
I have been doubting this all along, but after reading our builder’s response, something about this increase doesn’t add up: "The roof overhang beyond the insulation is now at 60 cm (24 inches). Including the insulation, it is now about 70 to 75 cm (27.5 to 29.5 inches) measured from the masonry. Normally, it would be only 40 to 45 cm (15.7 to 17.7 inches) including insulation." (see my reply to Chris82’s post).
I’m certainly not a penny-pincher, especially since we have already accepted an increase related to raising the knee wall, changing the roof pitch from 32° to 35°, as well as extending the house by 0.25 m (10 inches) (all things we wanted). But if this is just the beginning, I’m more or less already expecting the next increase for the waterproofed basement, which should actually be included in the contract anyway (this was a bit ironic).
Best regards
Regards,
Marco
Hello.
If you have to pay €400 more for just 1.5cm (0.6 inches) extra, that’s pure daylight robbery!! Did I understand that correctly? If you have a competent construction manager, this shouldn’t be an issue at all for them. Do you think the carpenter will then get €350 more? No, no...
If you have to pay €400 more for just 1.5cm (0.6 inches) extra, that’s pure daylight robbery!! Did I understand that correctly? If you have a competent construction manager, this shouldn’t be an issue at all for them. Do you think the carpenter will then get €350 more? No, no...
Homi schrieb:
hello.
if you have to pay 400€ for just 1.5cm more, that’s pure rip-off!! Did I understand that correctly? If you have a competent site manager, this shouldn’t be an issue for them at all. Do you think the carpenter would get 350€ more then? no no...Hi Homi,
no, not for 1.5cm, but for about 15cm! He calculates the roof overhang on the eaves side as approximately 65cm (around 26 inches), as specified in the scope of work, measured from the exterior of the 24cm (9.5 inch) loadbearing calcium silicate masonry wall, excluding the external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS) and the reinforcing mesh which still need to be applied (about 15cm / 6 inches)! These 15cm are then missing from the overhang. That’s what I don’t understand, because according to his reasoning I could also require the finished masonry to match the dimensions stated in the purchase contract exactly.
Regards,
Marco
Chris82 schrieb:
That makes no sense. The external dimensions (which are hopefully specified) of a building are the external dimensions(!!!), meaning it doesn’t matter whether it is monolithic or not. I believe the definition of external is clear.Thank you, that’s how I see it too, but I was somehow unsure if my view was correct. I will contact our representative again tomorrow during the day to ask for clarification. The external dimensions are stated in the contract. Today I specifically looked up the definition of "roof overhang" and found the following text (which matches my personal understanding):
“The roof overhang refers to the part of the roof that extends beyond the external wall of a building.” as well as “The roof eave or roof overhang is, according to the definition, the part of the roof surface that extends beyond the intersection line between the external wall and the roof surface (possibly including the gutter).”
So, all clear.
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