Hello everyone,
maybe this thread is a bit early since we don’t have a planned floor plan yet. But we would still appreciate your advice. First of all, because this is probably the most important information: We are planning with a budget of 600,000 euros for the house plus additional building-related costs. We have received approval to purchase the plot shown here. We will sign the purchase contract at the end of next week. Now to our problem:
We are very uncertain about which is the better decision for our plot: a (partial) basement with a smaller floor plan (about 130 – 140 m² (1400 – 1500 sq ft)) (Option A), or a slab foundation with a slightly larger floor plan (about 170 m² (1800 sq ft)) (Option B).
I will list the pros and cons as we see them for each option.
Option A:
+ Utility room in the basement frees up space on the ground floor; no noise issues
+ More usable space overall
+ Hobby room can also be used flexibly for gatherings
+ Storage space!
+ Possibility of a double parking space
- Expensive (a full basement is probably unrealistic with our budget; is a partial basement more sensible?)
- Less space on the ground and upper floors
Option B:
+ More living space on the ground and upper floors
+ High potential for cost savings!
+ Possible to use the attic for storage?
- Is there still enough space for a double parking space?
- Possible issues with the plot ratio? If we understand correctly, the footprint of the house may be limited to 143 m² (1540 sq ft) plus 70 m² (750 sq ft) for driveway, garage, etc. My feeling is that the developed area might easily be underestimated and reach the limit quickly.
We would be interested in your opinion on how you would build on this plot. I have made a very rough sketch of how we imagine the orientation of the house and placement of parking spaces, etc. I have also attached the site plan and development plan. The questionnaire is mostly filled out, but a “final” floor plan is still missing, as mentioned. This will also largely depend on the question of whether to have a basement or not.
I hope I haven’t forgotten anything...
Best regards
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size 477 m² (5130 sq ft)
Slope Minimal
Plot ratio (ground coverage ratio) 0.3
Floor area ratio 0.8
Building envelope, building line, boundary 14 x 14 meters (see image)
Edge development see image
Number of parking spaces unknown
Building height up to 2 full stories
Roof type Hip roof or gable roof 30-40 degrees
Architectural style unknown
Orientation unknown
Maximum height / limits unknown
Other requirements unknown
Homeowners’ Requirements
Architectural style, Roof type Gable or hip roof (open to either)
Basement, number of floors Basement yes/no is the big question. 1.5 – 2 full stories
Number of occupants, ages 2 adults (32 and 33), 1 child (1), 1 more child planned
Room requirements on ground and upper floors Utility room, guest toilet with shower, guest room, study (a study nook might also be sufficient), 2 children’s rooms, master bedroom, bathroom
Office: family use or home office? Both
Overnight guests per year Parents-in-law should be able to stay regularly (about once a month)
Open or closed layout Open kitchen / living / dining area
Conservative or modern design Exterior should be clean and simple – relatively straightforward
Open kitchen, kitchen island Yes, at least a peninsula
Number of dining places in the kitchen No dining space needed in the kitchen; the dining room should have space for a large table
Fireplace If budget allows; not mandatory
Music / sound wall 11.2.4 sound system + TV to be integrated into the study (or guest room)
Balcony, roof terrace Not necessary
Garage, carport Double carport or double garage would be nice if space allows; otherwise 2 parking spaces in tandem
Utility garden, greenhouse Not planned
Other wishes / special features / daily routine, including reasons why some options are preferred or rejected Smart home with KNX (or Loxone); controlled ventilation system, photovoltaic system (+ possibly battery storage), air-to-water heat pump
House Design
Who did the planning:
- Planner from a construction company
- Architect
- Do-it-yourself
What do you especially like? Why?
What do you dislike? Why?
Estimated cost according to architect/planner:
Personal budget limit for the house, including equipment:
Preferred heating technology: Air-to-water heat pump + photovoltaic system (+ possibly small battery storage)
If you have to give up something, which details or features
- can you do without:
- cannot do without:
maybe this thread is a bit early since we don’t have a planned floor plan yet. But we would still appreciate your advice. First of all, because this is probably the most important information: We are planning with a budget of 600,000 euros for the house plus additional building-related costs. We have received approval to purchase the plot shown here. We will sign the purchase contract at the end of next week. Now to our problem:
We are very uncertain about which is the better decision for our plot: a (partial) basement with a smaller floor plan (about 130 – 140 m² (1400 – 1500 sq ft)) (Option A), or a slab foundation with a slightly larger floor plan (about 170 m² (1800 sq ft)) (Option B).
I will list the pros and cons as we see them for each option.
Option A:
+ Utility room in the basement frees up space on the ground floor; no noise issues
+ More usable space overall
+ Hobby room can also be used flexibly for gatherings
+ Storage space!
+ Possibility of a double parking space
- Expensive (a full basement is probably unrealistic with our budget; is a partial basement more sensible?)
- Less space on the ground and upper floors
Option B:
+ More living space on the ground and upper floors
+ High potential for cost savings!
+ Possible to use the attic for storage?
- Is there still enough space for a double parking space?
- Possible issues with the plot ratio? If we understand correctly, the footprint of the house may be limited to 143 m² (1540 sq ft) plus 70 m² (750 sq ft) for driveway, garage, etc. My feeling is that the developed area might easily be underestimated and reach the limit quickly.
We would be interested in your opinion on how you would build on this plot. I have made a very rough sketch of how we imagine the orientation of the house and placement of parking spaces, etc. I have also attached the site plan and development plan. The questionnaire is mostly filled out, but a “final” floor plan is still missing, as mentioned. This will also largely depend on the question of whether to have a basement or not.
I hope I haven’t forgotten anything...
Best regards
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size 477 m² (5130 sq ft)
Slope Minimal
Plot ratio (ground coverage ratio) 0.3
Floor area ratio 0.8
Building envelope, building line, boundary 14 x 14 meters (see image)
Edge development see image
Number of parking spaces unknown
Building height up to 2 full stories
Roof type Hip roof or gable roof 30-40 degrees
Architectural style unknown
Orientation unknown
Maximum height / limits unknown
Other requirements unknown
Homeowners’ Requirements
Architectural style, Roof type Gable or hip roof (open to either)
Basement, number of floors Basement yes/no is the big question. 1.5 – 2 full stories
Number of occupants, ages 2 adults (32 and 33), 1 child (1), 1 more child planned
Room requirements on ground and upper floors Utility room, guest toilet with shower, guest room, study (a study nook might also be sufficient), 2 children’s rooms, master bedroom, bathroom
Office: family use or home office? Both
Overnight guests per year Parents-in-law should be able to stay regularly (about once a month)
Open or closed layout Open kitchen / living / dining area
Conservative or modern design Exterior should be clean and simple – relatively straightforward
Open kitchen, kitchen island Yes, at least a peninsula
Number of dining places in the kitchen No dining space needed in the kitchen; the dining room should have space for a large table
Fireplace If budget allows; not mandatory
Music / sound wall 11.2.4 sound system + TV to be integrated into the study (or guest room)
Balcony, roof terrace Not necessary
Garage, carport Double carport or double garage would be nice if space allows; otherwise 2 parking spaces in tandem
Utility garden, greenhouse Not planned
Other wishes / special features / daily routine, including reasons why some options are preferred or rejected Smart home with KNX (or Loxone); controlled ventilation system, photovoltaic system (+ possibly battery storage), air-to-water heat pump
House Design
Who did the planning:
- Planner from a construction company
- Architect
- Do-it-yourself
What do you especially like? Why?
What do you dislike? Why?
Estimated cost according to architect/planner:
Personal budget limit for the house, including equipment:
Preferred heating technology: Air-to-water heat pump + photovoltaic system (+ possibly small battery storage)
If you have to give up something, which details or features
- can you do without:
- cannot do without:
SandyBlack schrieb:
Thanks – this is very interesting to read. For the general contractor, the fixed price period probably starts earlier – namely with the signature – but even with the architect, you are not completely at the mercy of price increases. Are all trades advertised at the same time by the architect? Or is this done gradually as needed? There is only one tender for a project, which includes all lots at once (otherwise no one could say they want to bid on all as the general contractor). There is already an overview of the intended construction schedule – so the floor layer knows that their work will begin long after the excavation phase (otherwise a craftsman in February could hardly know that they won’t be available in October).
SandyBlack schrieb:
My point was less that this is not always easy, but rather that with all providers who only offer catalog houses, you might be lucky if one of the house designs fits well to your plot. But if not, it can become disproportionately expensive with these providers. At least that has been our experience / impression. Then read the post and your impression will become clearer; Google will guide you there (external links are not allowed here, you must include the quotation marks in the search phrase). The way to contact the author is also provided there.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
H
HoisleBauer2212 Feb 2022 23:47blubbernase schrieb:
for example, we absolutely do not want the stairway to be located right at the entrance This is a bit off-topic, but just briefly: Why? What disadvantages do you see?
B
blubbernase13 Feb 2022 11:00HoisleBauer22 schrieb:
It’s a bit off-topic, but just briefly: Why? What disadvantages? I thought this would be mentioned in our thread, but somehow it’s actually nowhere clearly stated. We currently live in a detached house where the staircase to the bedrooms runs right by the front door. Due to family (children) and hobbies (dog, running), we always have dirt in the entrance area – and that won’t change in the future. As a result, the dirt is immediately tracked everywhere (which is why the vacuum cleaner is almost always left out in the hallway :| ). Also, we find the staircase at the entrance extremely ‘uncomfortable’ in terms of flow. Every trip to the bedrooms feels like we’re just about to go outside. For this reason, we don’t want a bathroom entrance directly at the front door. We currently have a toilet right at the front door. It’s the quickest to reach from the kitchen and living room. We don’t use it and prefer to walk 3 meters (10 feet) and go through one more door instead.
S
SandyBlack17 Feb 2022 08:49Good morning,
I have a question regarding architects. Assuming that two architects plan and build exactly the same house with the same contractors, can cost differences only result from different architectural fees? The fee calculation is based on the HOAI. Some architects charge below the HOAI rates. Is there a guideline on what percentage below HOAI would be considered a fair amount?
I have a question regarding architects. Assuming that two architects plan and build exactly the same house with the same contractors, can cost differences only result from different architectural fees? The fee calculation is based on the HOAI. Some architects charge below the HOAI rates. Is there a guideline on what percentage below HOAI would be considered a fair amount?
A
altoderneu17 Feb 2022 10:23SandyBlack schrieb:
Assuming two architects plan and build exactly the same house with the same contractors, cost differences can only result from different architect fees, right?I would expect a GOOD architect to find the most cost-effective solutions to meet MY "specifications."
--> How is it supposed to happen that two different architects design EXACTLY THE SAME house?
Additional cost differences can also arise if one of the architects overlooks workmanship defects during the later construction supervision... and you end up with expensive repairs in 5 or 15 years (which could have been avoided with immediate complaints).
SandyBlack schrieb:
I have another question about architects. Assuming that two architects design and build exactly the same house with the same contractors, can cost differences only result from different architect fees?Are you a philosophy student or a client? — It hardly gets more hypothetical than that. In practice, the same house designed by the same architect often becomes more expensive when the client tries to handle the tendering themselves. And yes, of course, the total cost with A+x can differ from the total cost with A+y.SandyBlack schrieb:
The fee calculation is based on the HOAI. Some architects calculate their fees below the HOAI rates. Is there a guideline for what percentage below HOAI would be considered a fair value?Either you apply the HOAI or you don’t. I would consider any fee arrangement advertising a discount of n.xy % below the fee table somewhat “questionably professional.” Besides, the HOAI rates are already fair in themselves and don’t need discounts. The issue is that private homeowners — although the project is more of an investment — tend to think like consumers, used to electronics stores giving “VAT discounts” at the start of the year. Naturally, the HOAI cannot perfectly reflect every individual case. That’s why I find freely negotiated fees a suitable tool to address this “shortcoming.” But I cannot share the view that the fee table is consistently inflated by a certain factor. Fees not only cover services and qualifications but also mandatory professional liability insurance. Experienced architects with many “claims-free years” pay lower premiums, but why should they pass those savings on to you when, in exchange, you benefit from their experience, resulting in a better house? Besides, who would then willingly pay more for a beginner?Either way: I hope you are not looking for a “discount architect” to combine the cheapest possible “project” using ignorant business logic.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Similar topics