Hello everyone,
As I mentioned in another post, we are considering building a house (1.5 floors plus basement; solid construction; plot of land available).
We have already had initial discussions with a local developer. For various reasons, we are unfortunately not really "enthusiastic" about this option (the contact person was very pushy, the supposedly detailed cost breakdown was a bad joke, etc.).
Now, some friends have advised us to build with an independent architect instead of a developer to save costs. The idea is that the architect would also take on construction supervision (including a construction log, etc.) and ideally coordinate the different trades.
Regardless of the approach, we want to contribute some work ourselves!
We have two main concerns. First, we were told that an architect can only provide an overall price estimate, whereas a developer offers a price guarantee (yes, of course, additional costs will arise here and there in both cases). Second, we cannot imagine that an architect who also takes on construction supervision and coordination would actually be cheaper than a developer.
Can you confirm or contradict this information we have? Do you have any general insights on this topic? Managing coordination ourselves would be incredibly difficult due to professional and personal reasons. Should this responsibility be handled by one knowledgeable person rather than multiple people?
Among our friends, everyone has built with developers, so we have no direct comparison.
A “let’s just give it a try” approach is out of the question for us given the sums involved. We also need a concrete figure before approaching the bank.
I hope you can provide some helpful advice here. Maybe there is one or more (former) homebuilders who have already built (or are building) with an independent architect.
Best regards,
Hausbau18
As I mentioned in another post, we are considering building a house (1.5 floors plus basement; solid construction; plot of land available).
We have already had initial discussions with a local developer. For various reasons, we are unfortunately not really "enthusiastic" about this option (the contact person was very pushy, the supposedly detailed cost breakdown was a bad joke, etc.).
Now, some friends have advised us to build with an independent architect instead of a developer to save costs. The idea is that the architect would also take on construction supervision (including a construction log, etc.) and ideally coordinate the different trades.
Regardless of the approach, we want to contribute some work ourselves!
We have two main concerns. First, we were told that an architect can only provide an overall price estimate, whereas a developer offers a price guarantee (yes, of course, additional costs will arise here and there in both cases). Second, we cannot imagine that an architect who also takes on construction supervision and coordination would actually be cheaper than a developer.
Can you confirm or contradict this information we have? Do you have any general insights on this topic? Managing coordination ourselves would be incredibly difficult due to professional and personal reasons. Should this responsibility be handled by one knowledgeable person rather than multiple people?
Among our friends, everyone has built with developers, so we have no direct comparison.
A “let’s just give it a try” approach is out of the question for us given the sums involved. We also need a concrete figure before approaching the bank.
I hope you can provide some helpful advice here. Maybe there is one or more (former) homebuilders who have already built (or are building) with an independent architect.
Best regards,
Hausbau18
Advantage of a smaller general contractor (GC): fixed price, personal contacts, input in the selection of contractors, everything works smoothly together. No gimmicks.
Advantage of an architect: independent site supervision, architectural special features. Architect-led construction prices are always higher. The architect wants to be paid and is currently not receiving good offers. Craftsmen tend to avoid working with architects because, in their view, an architect guarantees stress. Many do not even submit bids when the tender is done by architects. You can forget about fixed prices with an architect.
Profit for the GC? So what, should they add on profit? The market allows it. Those who don’t want to accept this should wait until Dragi raises interest rates. Karsten
Advantage of an architect: independent site supervision, architectural special features. Architect-led construction prices are always higher. The architect wants to be paid and is currently not receiving good offers. Craftsmen tend to avoid working with architects because, in their view, an architect guarantees stress. Many do not even submit bids when the tender is done by architects. You can forget about fixed prices with an architect.
Profit for the GC? So what, should they add on profit? The market allows it. Those who don’t want to accept this should wait until Dragi raises interest rates. Karsten
D
Deliverer17 Oct 2017 20:36Nordlys schrieb:
Advantage of a smaller general contractor. Fixed price. I know two architects who do that as well.
Nordlys schrieb:
Personal contacts, involvement in selecting subcontractors, everything runs smoothly. No gimmicks. All of that too.
Nordlys schrieb:
Advantage of an architect: independent construction management, architectural special features. True.
Nordlys schrieb:
Architect-led construction always more expensive. Not true.
Nordlys schrieb:
He wants to be paid, currently not getting good offers. The first part is correct, I don’t understand the second.
Nordlys schrieb:
Tradespeople don’t like working with architects because, in their view, architects are a guarantee for stress. To respond to your generalization: that is not true.
Nordlys schrieb:
Many don’t even submit bids when the architect handles the tender. Many don’t submit bids in tenders, that is true.
Nordlys schrieb:
You can forget about a fixed price when working with an architect. We’ve already covered this...
Nordlys schrieb:
General contractor’s profit. So what, should he add more? This sentence is missing a verb.
Okay, that might have been a bit cheeky of me. Sorry for that, Karsten. I appreciate your perspective and many of your contributions. But that one was too generalized for me, as my experience has been quite different.
Maybe in many cases your points are valid – but not always.
I would base my decision on references, conversations, and ultimately on how I feel about who I’m building with, rather than on the company’s “legal form.”
My experience here is that, because we are in the public sector, we are required to put construction projects out to tender. Smaller projects we handle ourselves, larger ones go through an architect. I’m not speaking from a private perspective, but from my professional experience. For minor work, I get three quotes via email or phone, and that works fine. For bigger projects, it started like this in 2014. For a contract of around 300,000 euros, we had to invite six companies just to get three usable bids. Painting work for 100,000 euros, two serious offers, one defensive offer, and three with no response at all. And since 2024, it has become even worse. For an estimated 450,000-euro project, the tendering process is currently ongoing, with bids due on October 26. I’m curious but also worried. The architect already had to beg companies to participate even before the tender opened. I’ve also reached out personally, contacting managers to ask if they would submit bids. The common response was that they are sorry, but they are currently not submitting bids, not participating in tenders, and not working with architects, and so on. That’s just how it is said. One company said they would gladly offer a fixed price for the entire project but only if the architect is excluded. As tempting as that might be if the fixed price is right, I am not allowed to do that. This is my reality here. Karsten
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stefanc8417 Oct 2017 21:472 questions:
- How can an independent architect offer fixed prices? You pay the contractors yourself, not through the architect, right? Then it’s no longer an architect but a general contractor?
- Isn’t the problem with public tenders that only the lowest bid wins, so companies don’t bother putting in much effort? I’m not sure if this approach works well in the private sector.
- How can an independent architect offer fixed prices? You pay the contractors yourself, not through the architect, right? Then it’s no longer an architect but a general contractor?
- Isn’t the problem with public tenders that only the lowest bid wins, so companies don’t bother putting in much effort? I’m not sure if this approach works well in the private sector.
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Deliverer17 Oct 2017 21:58stefanc84 schrieb:
- How can an independent architect offer fixed prices? You pay the contractors yourself, not through the architect, right? Then it’s not an architect anymore but a general contractor? The architect creates the design and prepares the specifications based on square meters (m²), linear meters, etc. Since they know all the dimensions and handle this process 14 or 15 times a year with the same group of companies, they simply understand the costs involved.
They also include a contingency for material sampling, avoid calculating from the minimum standard, but rather take a middle-ground approach and provide a price that ultimately proves accurate.
S
stefanc8417 Oct 2017 22:14Ok, I understand that, but for me, it still isn’t a “fixed price.” If unexpected additional costs arise, the architect won’t cover them out of pocket. A single-family house is, of course, not the Elbphilharmonie or the BER airport. I just wanted to clarify what you meant. I’m also generally pro-architect; a good one should be able to reasonably estimate a single-family house.
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