ᐅ Preparing a Smart Home for Future Expansion (No Wireless/Cloud)
Created on: 3 Sep 2023 13:18
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Numrollen
Hello,
I am currently building a house; the walls are up, and the roof will be installed in the next few days. I work in IT, but for cost reasons, and because my electrician isn’t very familiar with the topic, I haven’t paid much attention to smart home systems. HOWEVER, I would like to prepare everything so that the basics are in place. I would rather not have to open up walls again later just because I got bored. Ideally, KNX would be great, but it’s quite expensive. My preferred option is probably Home Assistant; I will definitely install my own server using Docker/VMs. That will be a lot of work. Or simply a basic system like Homematic wired. This is my intention and line of thought. Here are some additional points to help understand what is important to me and what I have already planned.
- Power over Ethernet (PoE) RJ45 cables planned so far for the garage door, 2 outdoor cameras (if installed), front door, and 2 ceiling access points.
- I do not want any product that requires an internet connection. If there is an app, it should be optional and accessed via VPN into the house before use—no “cloud product” from a manufacturer. Also for data privacy reasons.
- I would like everything to be wired wherever possible, no wireless/Wi-Fi.
Now that electrical wiring is about to begin and I will soon be chiseling wall channels:
- What makes sense to wire, and which type of cables? For example, electric roller shutters are currently controlled by a classic switch at the door. Which cables should I run down to the fuse box? Just extend the existing 2-wire cable? Or should I run at least one RJ45 cable per room to the control boxes?
- For lighting, I might extend only outdoor lights and living room lights. The hallway will be controlled by a motion sensor, and I don’t currently see any point in individual room lighting control (or do I?).
- How much space should I allow for the distribution board/panel, or should I keep some free space? Or would it be better to install a second panel next to it in 1-4 years instead of reserving empty space now?
Are there any other aspects I should consider now that would be difficult to deal with later?
I would really appreciate it if someone with experience could help me out.
Best regards, and have a great Sunday!
I am currently building a house; the walls are up, and the roof will be installed in the next few days. I work in IT, but for cost reasons, and because my electrician isn’t very familiar with the topic, I haven’t paid much attention to smart home systems. HOWEVER, I would like to prepare everything so that the basics are in place. I would rather not have to open up walls again later just because I got bored. Ideally, KNX would be great, but it’s quite expensive. My preferred option is probably Home Assistant; I will definitely install my own server using Docker/VMs. That will be a lot of work. Or simply a basic system like Homematic wired. This is my intention and line of thought. Here are some additional points to help understand what is important to me and what I have already planned.
- Power over Ethernet (PoE) RJ45 cables planned so far for the garage door, 2 outdoor cameras (if installed), front door, and 2 ceiling access points.
- I do not want any product that requires an internet connection. If there is an app, it should be optional and accessed via VPN into the house before use—no “cloud product” from a manufacturer. Also for data privacy reasons.
- I would like everything to be wired wherever possible, no wireless/Wi-Fi.
Now that electrical wiring is about to begin and I will soon be chiseling wall channels:
- What makes sense to wire, and which type of cables? For example, electric roller shutters are currently controlled by a classic switch at the door. Which cables should I run down to the fuse box? Just extend the existing 2-wire cable? Or should I run at least one RJ45 cable per room to the control boxes?
- For lighting, I might extend only outdoor lights and living room lights. The hallway will be controlled by a motion sensor, and I don’t currently see any point in individual room lighting control (or do I?).
- How much space should I allow for the distribution board/panel, or should I keep some free space? Or would it be better to install a second panel next to it in 1-4 years instead of reserving empty space now?
Are there any other aspects I should consider now that would be difficult to deal with later?
I would really appreciate it if someone with experience could help me out.
Best regards, and have a great Sunday!
N
Numrollen4 Sep 2023 23:06So far, there are basically only four areas: bathroom, entrance doors, terrace, living room/dining room.
Numrollen schrieb:
I have a maximum of 4 weeks left until it must be finished and I’m starting next week.
...
2 wires, for example from the roller shutters, near the distribution cabinet or the 4 wires along the flush-mounted boxes? I A bit late, good luck. Are you expecting a full training and then a solution within 2 days, or how do you imagine this? Apparently, the basics are already missing here. A few YouTube videos won’t get you very far.
Yes, you should know what an actuator is. You should also know where this actuator is installed depending on the system: centrally in the distribution box or flush-mounted near the devices to be controlled (e.g., roller shutters). You should already know WHAT you want to switch or dim and WHERE. Only after that should you look into what kind of system you want, need, or can afford.
Just running cables without planning—sure, that’s possible. But it almost never works.
H
hausbau_phobos4 Sep 2023 23:34Are you familiar with the KNX forum!?
Numrollen schrieb:
My ideas:
Bathroom/toilet lighting + music
Roller shutter controls throughout the house (weather, time of day, heat/cold protection)
Sun (weather) sensor facing south, protruding somewhere from the wall?
Remote control for front door and garage door
Automated heating/cooling based on weather
(Smoke detector was advised against due to high cost)
We have one blind; raise it during strong wind.
Reduce the number of buttons in the living/dining room or assign different functions (scenes?)
Outdoor and living room light control with dimming/timing. When outdoor lights are on = terrace roller shutter must not be closed. When terrace roller shutter is down = lights off. Forget it given the scope. To grasp this so intensively in a short time that you can initially plan a house accordingly (!) and then wire it correctly „without reading 80 pages“ and instead just watching a few YouTube videos is simply not feasible. This is not about the ISO standard definition of KNX/EIB, but about the absolute practical basics. Not to mention the software side.
Otherwise, try googling „KNX setup,“ that might be helpful.
HeimatBauer schrieb:
For me now? Currently mostly building services like ventilation, heating/cooling, several differential humidity fans, smoke detectors, water detectors, CO2 sensors, sun, rain – so „boring“ functions like intelligent climate control depending on weather forecast, photovoltaic yield, and planned occupancy. So you basically connected a few HVAC devices via LAN. Comparing that to KNX and a comprehensive building control system is like saying, „I have two wheels here, why would I need a car?“ The OP wants to control his whole house, not just a bit of ventilation and cooling. That’s exactly where Ethernet quickly reaches its limits, unless you rely on REG-Shellys or HomeMatic. Industrial standard versus DIY island system.
Numrollen schrieb:
Hello,
I have a maximum of 4 weeks left until it must be finished and will start next week. There are hardly any electricians here who know KNX. I have spoken to three electricians, and if anything, they only knew about “wireless smart stuff from brand X.” I will hardly manage; I already asked around in another trade who could advise me in advance, got two “yeah, sure, we’ll get back to you, bye.” So rather nothing, which is why I’m asking here.
So I want to prepare and will keep reading for a few more days. If anyone has a few links that aren’t 80 pages long, please share. I’ve already watched a few videos on YouTube. Do I really need to know what an actuator is for this (yes, I roughly know, but as an example)? At least in IT forums, it’s recommended not to immediately start reading about the OSI model when asking questions; everything else makes no sense. I don’t want to install actuators or do any programming right now, just lay cables. For example, 2 wires for the blinds near the switch cabinet or the 4 wires along the flush-mounted boxes? I would appreciate if someone could give a few examples of how to wire this sensibly. That would help me much more than lectures on why I should first study KNX properly or just leave it to companies.
My ideas:
Bathroom/toilet lighting and music
Control blinds throughout the house (weather, time of day, heat/cold protection)
Sun sensor facing south coming out of the wall somewhere?
Remote control for front door and garage door
Automated heating/cooling depending on weather
(smoke detectors were advised against due to high cost)
We have 1 shutter; it should go up in strong winds.
Reduce or combine some buttons in the living/dining room (scenes?)
Outdoor and living room lighting control dimming/time. If outdoor light is on = no operation of the terrace blinds. If terrace blinds are down = lights off.
Regards I don’t want to discourage you, but four weeks is really quite tight. And reading 80 pages is actually not much in the KNX world.
Yes, you should have basic knowledge of what an actuator and a sensor are (the OSI model comparison is really a bit extreme here), and at least know the most basic actuators and sensors.
The problem is that a proper KNX installation has very little to do with a standard house installation, and a standard installation with the addition of laying the green bus cable for KNX would become a very expensive KNX setup. (A flush-mounted actuator – for example, a relay to switch lights on/off – costs more than twice as much as a single channel of a multi-channel actuator – multi-relay – in the switch cabinet. That’s why blinds and switched sockets are usually wired with a 5-core cable back to the switch cabinet and not switched locally, BUT a cable in the switch cabinet doesn’t help much if you first want to simply operate the blinds with just two push-buttons for up and down.)
The balance between a standard installation and KNX is very difficult, and one of the two alternatives will definitely be much more expensive than doing either one alone.
I’m not a KNX system integrator, and what I have learned so far comes from a typical standard reference book (the comprehensive one by S.H., which is not only about KNX) and some personal interest. Therefore, I find it difficult to give recommendations.
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Numrollen5 Sep 2023 21:18It all sounds as if every home installation reinvents the wheel because it is incredibly complex.
Are there no standard implementations? For example, gradually dimming the lights based on the time of day—what is needed for that?
I just want to get recommendations from someone. Roller shutter with 2 wires to the light switch, from there 5 conductors to the distribution board. Light and music from the ceiling with 4 conductors to the distribution board.
Are there any example wiring plans available, for instance from experience reports?
Are there no standard implementations? For example, gradually dimming the lights based on the time of day—what is needed for that?
I just want to get recommendations from someone. Roller shutter with 2 wires to the light switch, from there 5 conductors to the distribution board. Light and music from the ceiling with 4 conductors to the distribution board.
Are there any example wiring plans available, for instance from experience reports?