ᐅ Options to keep the upper floor area within two-thirds of the ground floor footprint
Created on: 24 Jul 2019 22:58
T
Tx-25
Hello, are there measures beyond the usual options to avoid exceeding the value mentioned in the subject? The common approaches involving roof slope and knee wall height are well known, of course. Our planner is currently somewhat unsure as well. Is it possible to measure from the top of the interior wall? After all, the walls are 47cm (19 inches) thick. Or could the stairwell be excluded from the ceiling height of 2.20m (7 ft 3 in) on the upper floor, and so on? We have two bay windows that are included on both sides in the calculation and are already important to us in the floor plan. Increasing the house width from 9 x 11m (30 x 36 ft) to 9 x 12m (30 x 39 ft) reportedly made no difference according to the builder. However, the bay windows also became wider at the same time.
Golfi90 schrieb:
When you come down the stairs, you end up walking through the dirt that you bring in after gardening, for example... We will hardly use the main entrance. The entrance for gardening work or the "daily return home" will be through the utility room. The area in front of the main entrance will be completely paved. Access to the terrace is through the kitchen and living room.
kaho674 schrieb:
You could ask VW how to manipulate values. Maybe the government also provides tips on how to increase limits. Yes, they are quite familiar with that. Seriously though, we do not want to falsify anything, but maybe take advantage of existing gray areas. If something is not allowed, then it’s not possible.
kaho674 schrieb:
Seems like a real expert.
Seriously, how much are you exceeding the limit? Ever calculated it? Hopefully, we are not talking about 5cm (2 inches) in knee wall height and therefore need a complete redesign. Otherwise, I would sooner consider extending the utility room behind the garage. That wouldn’t even be visible from the outside.
By the way, what is that strange corner on the garage supposed to be for? We planned with a 1.01 meter (3 ft 4 in) knee wall height and have now ended up at 75cm (30 inches) based on the calculations. We then increased the house footprint to 9 x 12 meters (30 x 39 feet) to disproportionately enlarge the ground floor compared to the upper floor. That did not work though. The lateral bay windows also grew accordingly (for aesthetic reasons).
Regarding an extension of the utility room, our developer said that no flat roof could be put on because otherwise the space would not count as living area. We only briefly discussed this, so maybe I misunderstood something.
The corner on the garage was made to still allow easy access to the house. The garage is built on the property boundary. With 9 meters (30 feet) length, we already hit the maximum and had to keep a 3 meter (10 ft) setback from the boundary with this small section.
Escroda schrieb:
State? Lower Saxony.
Escroda schrieb:
Why? Is there a development plan? The more input, the more output. Yes, there is a building plan.
It requires a single-story building with a maximum eaves height of 4.50 meters (15 feet).
The developer is concerned because the space — if it is built in the garage and possibly walled off — doesn’t really count towards the main living area. The room is located in an outbuilding.
If the utility room is pushed out and enlarged directly, it would look different, in my opinion.
Tx-25 schrieb:
Regarding an extension of the utility room, our builder said that a flat roof is not allowed there because otherwise it would not be considered living space? That sounds suspicious. I've never heard that before. I would question that.kaho674 schrieb:
That sounds ominous. I’ve never heard of that before. I would be skeptical about it. I will follow up on that. As I said, we only touched on it briefly and in connection with the garage. Maybe I misunderstood something.
Can someone tell me if the staircase is included in the calculation of the living area on the upper floor? We’re not allowed to exceed two-thirds of the ground floor area. The height above the staircase is, of course, over 2.20 meters (7.2 feet). Our builder has currently included that area in the calculation. With the staircase dimensions of 3.75 by 1.2 meters (12.3 by 3.9 feet), that would be about 4.5 square meters (48 square feet) deducted upstairs—unless I also have to subtract it from the ground floor.
Since we have to maintain a 3 meter (10 feet) distance to the neighboring property, I can’t gain much more floor space for the utility room on the ground floor. Although we could shift the house a bit to the left.
Tx-25 schrieb:
We planned with a knee wall height of 1.01 meters (3 ft 4 in) but ended up with 75 cm (2 ft 6 in) after calculations. In response, we enlarged the house to 9 by 12 meters (29.5 by 39.4 ft) to disproportionately increase the ground floor area compared to the upper floor. However, this did not bring any success. The side bay windows also grew proportionally for aesthetic reasons.If you enlarge the house on the ground floor, you can either allow the upper floor to grow accordingly or box in the upper floor so that the knee wall is not 75 cm (2 ft 6 in) but 1 meter (3 ft 4 in) or as calculated. This way, two-thirds of the upper floor height is achieved. Anything below that is not really needed anyway. If you box it in with a timber frame structure on the plan to 1.30 meters (4 ft 3 in) or as calculated, you can place a bed with a headboard in the bedroom. The children’s rooms can then have built-in wardrobes integrated into the boxed-in area, which can be decided flexibly during the interior finishing.
kaho674 schrieb:
That sounds ominous. I've never heard of it before. I would doubt that.I would too. We, or rather our general contractor, complied with the regulation by adding an extension that enlarges the living room around the corner. On top of that is a flat roof with a terrace, also in Lower Saxony.Tx-25 schrieb:
Lower Saxony.OK, basically it’s the same as in North Rhine-Westphalia, except that the values lead to a full storey being counted much earlier.Tx-25 schrieb:
The room is located in an outbuilding.How it is classified depends on the zoning plan’s regulations and how it is connected to the main building.Tx-25 schrieb:
Maybe I misunderstood something.Yeah, clarify that first before we heavily criticize the developer here.Tx-25 schrieb:
Can someone tell me whether the staircase is included in the calculation of the living area on the upper floor?I don’t know. But I can tell you that living area does not matter when determining a full storey; instead, the gross floor areas of each storey are used—meaning the area based on the building’s exterior dimensions. Staircases are treated so that their floor plans are projected onto the floor level of the storey they lead to—essentially, the stairwell opening is imagined to be filled in with the stair steps.Tx-25 schrieb:
Our developer has currently included the staircase area.Then they acted correctly.Tx-25 schrieb:
Unless I have to subtract it again on the lower floor.No, the area counts fully on both floors because there is a dormer above the staircase.Tx-25 schrieb:
Since we have to keep a 3-meter (10 feet) distance from the neighboring property, I can’t really create much more floor space in the utility room on the ground floor.I see the following options: 1. Simple, quick to implement, and cost-saving: omit the dormer above the entrance
2. Simple, quick to implement, but expensive—assuming the building envelope allows it: add a conservatory within the thermal envelope
3. Possibly complicated: redesign the utility room, provided that the building envelope or other regulations (which we don’t know—hint: maybe upload the zoning plan here) don’t prevent it
4. Time-consuming and costly: see @ypg: larger house with the knee wall unchanged, adding a dormer at the original knee wall height
5. Dream house gone: leave it to the developer; low knee wall and shallow roof pitch
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