ᐅ Request for Evaluation of Heating and Ventilation Concept for a New Single-Family House
Created on: 31 Dec 2015 19:32
H
holg182
Hello everyone,
We are planning to build a detached single-family house, about 160 sqm (1,722 sq ft), on an 1100 sqm (11,840 sq ft) plot at the edge of town with a slight slope on slate soil. We are aiming for approximately a KfW 70 energy efficiency level, although with the current interest rates we are not relying on the related subsidies. Overall, our planning is going quite well, but when it comes to heating and ventilation, we are unsure if our plan really makes sense. Therefore, we appreciate your opinions on this 🙂
In general, we want to build and operate the house simply and cost-effectively, and it would be great if we could do this with a clear conscience for the environment. Our idea:
- A fairly well-insulated building envelope (see above), without it becoming a bottomless pit.
- Air-to-water heat pump
- Pellet stove in the living room
- Controlled mechanical ventilation (with heat recovery)
- Underfloor heating
The idea is that the air-to-water heat pump supplies most of the heat for the house, and the pellet stove in the living room provides extra support when it gets very cold outside. Ideally, this would happen automatically—so that the pellet stove switches on as soon as the outside temperature drops to a certain value, e.g., -3°C (27°F).
Here are a few questions for you experts:
1. Does this concept make sense as a whole?
2. Or would it be better / simpler / more cost-effective overall to use gas for purchase, operation, and maintenance?
3. Should the pellet stove in our setup be water-bearing (hydronic) or not?
4. Should the controlled mechanical ventilation system include heat recovery, or is that not necessarily required? Does a central or decentralized system make more sense here?
5. How can I find someone who can plan, recommend, offer, and install the right equipment for this setup (and not just the products that provide them with the highest commission)?
Thank you very much for your opinions—and Happy New Year in advance 🙂
We are planning to build a detached single-family house, about 160 sqm (1,722 sq ft), on an 1100 sqm (11,840 sq ft) plot at the edge of town with a slight slope on slate soil. We are aiming for approximately a KfW 70 energy efficiency level, although with the current interest rates we are not relying on the related subsidies. Overall, our planning is going quite well, but when it comes to heating and ventilation, we are unsure if our plan really makes sense. Therefore, we appreciate your opinions on this 🙂
In general, we want to build and operate the house simply and cost-effectively, and it would be great if we could do this with a clear conscience for the environment. Our idea:
- A fairly well-insulated building envelope (see above), without it becoming a bottomless pit.
- Air-to-water heat pump
- Pellet stove in the living room
- Controlled mechanical ventilation (with heat recovery)
- Underfloor heating
The idea is that the air-to-water heat pump supplies most of the heat for the house, and the pellet stove in the living room provides extra support when it gets very cold outside. Ideally, this would happen automatically—so that the pellet stove switches on as soon as the outside temperature drops to a certain value, e.g., -3°C (27°F).
Here are a few questions for you experts:
1. Does this concept make sense as a whole?
2. Or would it be better / simpler / more cost-effective overall to use gas for purchase, operation, and maintenance?
3. Should the pellet stove in our setup be water-bearing (hydronic) or not?
4. Should the controlled mechanical ventilation system include heat recovery, or is that not necessarily required? Does a central or decentralized system make more sense here?
5. How can I find someone who can plan, recommend, offer, and install the right equipment for this setup (and not just the products that provide them with the highest commission)?
Thank you very much for your opinions—and Happy New Year in advance 🙂
P
Peanuts746 Jan 2016 07:05Sebastian79 schrieb:
I know that these devices must comply with certain standards – the same applies to car noise, yet there are vehicles that are louder from the factory than any tuned exhaust 😉
And those standard measurements for the devices are carried out under laboratory conditions at very specific distances.
If you don’t follow exact guidelines during installation, and the system is poorly adjusted, noise problems often occur.
Of course, this is often subjective as well – noise gets annoying more quickly 😉
Nobody here owns one of these units, except one person who keeps it in the attic of their garage. So I’m not affected…
I don’t want to demonize these devices, but saying that since the windows are closed in winter, they hardly cause any disturbance, is quite telling 😉
There are plenty of reports online and lawsuits over these units. But of course, that’s a typically German problem – people always bring that up.
It’s always amusing how, as a moderator, you can’t help but continue with personal digs. But that’s how we know you by now 🙂 Now I really have to add my two cents.
When I said that the systems are not audible with the window closed, I didn’t mean that noise is an issue with the window open. In our very quiet neighborhood, you cannot hear the outdoor unit during the day even with the window open in winter. Only at night, when it is almost completely silent, if you open a window and stand right beside it (on the side where the unit is located), you can hear a faint hum. Since our house is about 15 meters (50 feet) from each neighboring house, there’s no need to worry about disturbing the neighbors.
By the way, with controlled mechanical ventilation systems, the windows are usually closed anyway, so it doesn’t bother anyone.
Many perceptions are subjective, including noise and other factors.
My neighbor across the street has a ventilation unit for his air-to-water heat pump installed in the garden. At first, he wanted to place it right on the property boundary—about 35m (115 feet) from my house—by my separate second terrace.
However, he later realized that this would be inefficient and expensive due to the pipe length and costs. The unit is now installed 6m (20 feet) next to his house.
Opinions may differ about its success and appearance—it looks, in my minor opinion, like a poorly designed refrigerator on two concrete stilts in the garden with a hose attached. You can hear the unit clearly when standing outside, but it’s not disturbing, and I would have accepted it even if it had been at the property edge. Many commercial airplanes, which begin their final landing approach to Düsseldorf here (sometimes quite impressive visually, especially an A380), are definitely noisier (the rescue helicopter is too, it flies over my house at night regularly to refuel…).
My neighbor, however, is already bothered by the solar panels for my photovoltaic system on my roof, which don’t even exist yet. He told me quite bluntly recently: “Then I always have to look at your totally ridiculous-looking roof with that completely pointless system on it.” I had a witty reply ready but thankfully held it back just in time…
There are things that bother me too. For example, the decentralized pellet system for the 12 terraced houses next door. When this steam engine ignites the glow plug to start the first pellets, it emits so much smoke and smell for 3–5 minutes that it looks like a house is burning down nearby (including on my terrace). Well—these systems do that (the system is fine technically), so what can I do? Get annoyed? No... life is too short for that. My wife and I usually just laugh and joke about when the “steam engine” might finally “explode” when starting up. 😱
Best regards,
Thorsten
My neighbor across the street has a ventilation unit for his air-to-water heat pump installed in the garden. At first, he wanted to place it right on the property boundary—about 35m (115 feet) from my house—by my separate second terrace.
However, he later realized that this would be inefficient and expensive due to the pipe length and costs. The unit is now installed 6m (20 feet) next to his house.
Opinions may differ about its success and appearance—it looks, in my minor opinion, like a poorly designed refrigerator on two concrete stilts in the garden with a hose attached. You can hear the unit clearly when standing outside, but it’s not disturbing, and I would have accepted it even if it had been at the property edge. Many commercial airplanes, which begin their final landing approach to Düsseldorf here (sometimes quite impressive visually, especially an A380), are definitely noisier (the rescue helicopter is too, it flies over my house at night regularly to refuel…).
My neighbor, however, is already bothered by the solar panels for my photovoltaic system on my roof, which don’t even exist yet. He told me quite bluntly recently: “Then I always have to look at your totally ridiculous-looking roof with that completely pointless system on it.” I had a witty reply ready but thankfully held it back just in time…
There are things that bother me too. For example, the decentralized pellet system for the 12 terraced houses next door. When this steam engine ignites the glow plug to start the first pellets, it emits so much smoke and smell for 3–5 minutes that it looks like a house is burning down nearby (including on my terrace). Well—these systems do that (the system is fine technically), so what can I do? Get annoyed? No... life is too short for that. My wife and I usually just laugh and joke about when the “steam engine” might finally “explode” when starting up. 😱
Best regards,
Thorsten
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