M
Matthias18214 Jun 2012 15:46Hello everyone,
We are currently looking for a developer for our house. At the same time, of course, we are also focusing on the right design, features, and price of the house.
Building a house is truly an adventure, and as you can imagine, there are a thousand questions and it’s hard to know where to start.
What I would like to know here is whether we are on the right track with a specific offer and if it can be implemented without any major concerns.
The key details are as follows:
Single-family house with approximately 140m² (1,507 sq ft) of living space, gable roof without dormers, KfW 70 standard, and
- central mechanical ventilation with heat recovery
- triple glazing with a U-value of 0.5
- solar rooftop system for domestic hot water with a 300-liter (79-gallon) storage tank
- roller shutters on the ground floor and upper floor
- underfloor heating return circuits in bathroom and kitchen
- triangular windows in the gable ends
The price for the whole package is supposed to be 180,000 euros. Overall, I find the price fair, but of course I’m also interested in your opinion.
Then I have a few more questions:
1. The construction description has very little information about the ventilation system installation. Should I follow up on this?
2. A condensing boiler from Vaillant, Junkers, Elco, or equivalent will be installed. Is this recommended, or are there specific things I should look out for?
3. What other aspects of the construction description should I pay attention to before accepting the offer? Are there any critical points I should be aware of?
Looking forward to your answers.
Best regards,
Matthias
We are currently looking for a developer for our house. At the same time, of course, we are also focusing on the right design, features, and price of the house.
Building a house is truly an adventure, and as you can imagine, there are a thousand questions and it’s hard to know where to start.
What I would like to know here is whether we are on the right track with a specific offer and if it can be implemented without any major concerns.
The key details are as follows:
Single-family house with approximately 140m² (1,507 sq ft) of living space, gable roof without dormers, KfW 70 standard, and
- central mechanical ventilation with heat recovery
- triple glazing with a U-value of 0.5
- solar rooftop system for domestic hot water with a 300-liter (79-gallon) storage tank
- roller shutters on the ground floor and upper floor
- underfloor heating return circuits in bathroom and kitchen
- triangular windows in the gable ends
The price for the whole package is supposed to be 180,000 euros. Overall, I find the price fair, but of course I’m also interested in your opinion.
Then I have a few more questions:
1. The construction description has very little information about the ventilation system installation. Should I follow up on this?
2. A condensing boiler from Vaillant, Junkers, Elco, or equivalent will be installed. Is this recommended, or are there specific things I should look out for?
3. What other aspects of the construction description should I pay attention to before accepting the offer? Are there any critical points I should be aware of?
Looking forward to your answers.
Best regards,
Matthias
I’ll start. I can only judge based on our own building project.
I think the price might be set a bit low, but it doesn’t sound completely wrong. Since you don’t know anything about the ventilation system, I would definitely follow up on that. What exactly are they installing, what accessories are included, and what will they charge you extra for?
If you already have specific requests related to the offer, make sure to get a price and an official offer for those before you sign anything. Otherwise, you might experience unexpected extra costs for things like a wood-burning stove, an additional shower, or whatever else.
I assume you’re building without a basement, since nothing about that was mentioned in the post. In that case, when buying the land, it’s important to make sure the plot is as level as possible. If you have to add a lot of gravel, like we did, costs will increase. Hopefully, someone also told you that there are additional costs on top of the house price?
Additional building costs range between 25,000 and 40,000 depending on the land and location.
Special requests for the house: estimate around 10,000 (those add up quickly).
Base coat plaster 3,000 € (about 3,200 USD)
Landscaping at least 10,000
Garage between 6,000 and 10,000
Kitchen 10,000
When buying land, expect roughly 8% of the purchase price for taxes and notary fees.
You’re quickly at around 270,000 to 300,000 without the land costs.
Before you sign, make sure you check the quality of the bathroom fixtures and plumbing installations (ask for references from previous homeowners or visit a model home if your builder has one).
No matter what you are told, get any concessions in writing.
Study the building specifications carefully.
… that’s it for now, nothing else comes to mind at the moment, hope this helps 🙂
I think the price might be set a bit low, but it doesn’t sound completely wrong. Since you don’t know anything about the ventilation system, I would definitely follow up on that. What exactly are they installing, what accessories are included, and what will they charge you extra for?
If you already have specific requests related to the offer, make sure to get a price and an official offer for those before you sign anything. Otherwise, you might experience unexpected extra costs for things like a wood-burning stove, an additional shower, or whatever else.
I assume you’re building without a basement, since nothing about that was mentioned in the post. In that case, when buying the land, it’s important to make sure the plot is as level as possible. If you have to add a lot of gravel, like we did, costs will increase. Hopefully, someone also told you that there are additional costs on top of the house price?
Additional building costs range between 25,000 and 40,000 depending on the land and location.
Special requests for the house: estimate around 10,000 (those add up quickly).
Base coat plaster 3,000 € (about 3,200 USD)
Landscaping at least 10,000
Garage between 6,000 and 10,000
Kitchen 10,000
When buying land, expect roughly 8% of the purchase price for taxes and notary fees.
You’re quickly at around 270,000 to 300,000 without the land costs.
Before you sign, make sure you check the quality of the bathroom fixtures and plumbing installations (ask for references from previous homeowners or visit a model home if your builder has one).
No matter what you are told, get any concessions in writing.
Study the building specifications carefully.
… that’s it for now, nothing else comes to mind at the moment, hope this helps 🙂
B
Bauexperte14 Jun 2012 21:04Hello Matthias,
Let’s see:
New build up to this point: EUR 204,000
Additional construction costs: EUR 35,000
Reserves for additional foundation costs: EUR 8,000
Cost for painting and floor coverings: EUR 15,000
Costs for landscaping/driveway: EUR 10,000
Cost for garage 3 x 9 meters (9.8 x 29.5 ft): EUR 9,000
Cushion for extras: EUR 10,000
Totalling EUR 291,000 plus land costs
Best regards
Matthias182 schrieb:You’ve already made a start; for initial information and experiences from “experienced” homeowners about what to watch out for, the HBF is a very good resource!
The topic of building a house is truly an adventure, and you can surely imagine that you have a thousand questions and don’t even know where to start.
Matthias182 schrieb:Even if I assume the simplest standard, I end up at EUR 196,000 without possible additional measures to achieve the KfW 70 energy-efficient house status.
Single-family house with approximately 140m² (1507 sq ft) living space, gable roof without dormers, KfW 70,
Matthias182 schrieb:Depending on the supplier and the size of the unit (calculated accordingly) between EUR 7,000 and 9,000.
and centralized ventilation with heat recovery
Matthias182 schrieb:This is already included in my base price calculation.
- Triple glazing with Ug = 0.5
- Solar rooftop system for domestic hot water with 300l (79 gallons) storage tank
- Roller shutters on ground and upper floors
Matthias182 schrieb:?
- Return circuit for underfloor heating in bathroom and kitchen
Matthias182 schrieb:Depending on size and design, between EUR 1,000 and open-ended per unit.
- Triangular windows in the gable ends
Matthias182 schrieb:If I apply average values everywhere, I arrive at a total of EUR 204,000 excluding the gable windows; I would assume that the supplier is a nationally operating volume builder...
The total price is supposed to be around EUR 180,000. Overall, I find the price fair, but of course I’m interested in your opinion.
Let’s see:
New build up to this point: EUR 204,000
Additional construction costs: EUR 35,000
Reserves for additional foundation costs: EUR 8,000
Cost for painting and floor coverings: EUR 15,000
Costs for landscaping/driveway: EUR 10,000
Cost for garage 3 x 9 meters (9.8 x 29.5 ft): EUR 9,000
Cushion for extras: EUR 10,000
Totalling EUR 291,000 plus land costs
Matthias182 schrieb:Obviously! However, the sizing also depends on the respective calculations.
1. The building specification says little about the execution of the ventilation system. Should I ask for more details here?
Matthias182 schrieb:Initially, these are reputable brands and not bad choices. But again, not every supplier has the correct size for the building project based on the calculation results.
2. A condensing boiler will be installed from Vaillant, Junkers, Elco, or equivalent. Is this recommended, or do I need to watch out for something?
Matthias182 schrieb:Plenty; just read through the HBF and you will get lots of tips; Matthias has already started here 😀 And if after reading all the material you still feel as uncertain as before, look for a consultation service that evaluates the construction documents as a whole! There are countless options for this.
3. What other points in the building specification should I pay attention to before accepting the offer? Are there any critical aspects?
Best regards
M
Matthias18215 Jun 2012 08:45Hello,
I have already calculated the costs for the plot, additional building expenses (utility connections, landscaping, fees, taxes, etc.) separately. Our total budget is about 380,000 EUR. Of this, 180,000 EUR is allocated for the house itself. I hope this is reasonable and a sensible calculation.
More important to me is really the assessment of whether the offered house is a fair deal.
I initially understand that it seems to be a "cheap" price. However, cheap is not always cheap. My question is how I can truly evaluate this. A few points stand out immediately, for example sanitary fixtures from Clivia Top / Topara. The fittings are from the Grohe EuroStyle series. So some cost-saving measures are certainly evident here. The roof tiles are Creaton Magnum or Braas Harzer. So again, a somewhat cheaper option. But I couldn’t identify much more in this regard.
The heating system is described as using brands like Junkers, Vaillant, Elco, or equivalent. Here, too, there is likely room for cost-saving by the builder.
The doors are supplied by the brand Prüm.
Are there any other points I should pay close attention to?
Also, I wonder if these probably somewhat cheaper products will turn out to be a disadvantage for me. Special features are simply not possible within my budget.
In this post of mine on the forum, you might also find a reference regarding our building project and the size of the builder:
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/konkrete-firmen-feedback/3955-schleswiger-bau-kontor.html
Construction consulting is also very high on my list. Do you have suggestions where I can get proper support? From what I read, TÜV and Dekra are often not recommended. Then I came across QVC and various homeowners associations (Haus & Grund, Bauherren-Schutzbund, etc.). Are these sensible options?
Thanks and regards,
Matthias182
I have already calculated the costs for the plot, additional building expenses (utility connections, landscaping, fees, taxes, etc.) separately. Our total budget is about 380,000 EUR. Of this, 180,000 EUR is allocated for the house itself. I hope this is reasonable and a sensible calculation.
More important to me is really the assessment of whether the offered house is a fair deal.
I initially understand that it seems to be a "cheap" price. However, cheap is not always cheap. My question is how I can truly evaluate this. A few points stand out immediately, for example sanitary fixtures from Clivia Top / Topara. The fittings are from the Grohe EuroStyle series. So some cost-saving measures are certainly evident here. The roof tiles are Creaton Magnum or Braas Harzer. So again, a somewhat cheaper option. But I couldn’t identify much more in this regard.
The heating system is described as using brands like Junkers, Vaillant, Elco, or equivalent. Here, too, there is likely room for cost-saving by the builder.
The doors are supplied by the brand Prüm.
Are there any other points I should pay close attention to?
Also, I wonder if these probably somewhat cheaper products will turn out to be a disadvantage for me. Special features are simply not possible within my budget.
In this post of mine on the forum, you might also find a reference regarding our building project and the size of the builder:
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/konkrete-firmen-feedback/3955-schleswiger-bau-kontor.html
Construction consulting is also very high on my list. Do you have suggestions where I can get proper support? From what I read, TÜV and Dekra are often not recommended. Then I came across QVC and various homeowners associations (Haus & Grund, Bauherren-Schutzbund, etc.). Are these sensible options?
Thanks and regards,
Matthias182
You’ve already received some advice about the brands in another forum. Go to your local home improvement store and look for Villeroy & Boch; you’ll see that they also offer very cheap options there.
Home improvement stores often sell branded products that were originally not produced for the German market. That’s why brand names are largely meaningless. Only when you have exact model numbers or have seen the items in person can you judge whether the price is fair. Generally, the general contractor aims to make a profit from the equipment and finishes, so if they offer something that cheap, you can assume there have been major cuts.
The brand won’t help you much with the heating system, as it must be suited to the house. If you ask your estimator, they’ll probably also tell you that solar is usually not cost-effective, and that you can reach the required KfW standard more cheaply with good insulation. Solar panels will eventually break down. Insulation lasts 🙂
What you really need is someone experienced in construction to read through the 20-30 pages of scope-of-work documents for you and tell you what’s missing and what it will cost. You should also have your contract reviewed if you can’t do this yourself 🙂 I recently heard from a friend that his builder required a bank guarantee, and the bank charged a substantial 4% fee on the loan amount. That meant €10,000 were lost due to a clause in the contract. For us, a financing confirmation was sufficient. (That costs nothing.)
Home improvement stores often sell branded products that were originally not produced for the German market. That’s why brand names are largely meaningless. Only when you have exact model numbers or have seen the items in person can you judge whether the price is fair. Generally, the general contractor aims to make a profit from the equipment and finishes, so if they offer something that cheap, you can assume there have been major cuts.
The brand won’t help you much with the heating system, as it must be suited to the house. If you ask your estimator, they’ll probably also tell you that solar is usually not cost-effective, and that you can reach the required KfW standard more cheaply with good insulation. Solar panels will eventually break down. Insulation lasts 🙂
What you really need is someone experienced in construction to read through the 20-30 pages of scope-of-work documents for you and tell you what’s missing and what it will cost. You should also have your contract reviewed if you can’t do this yourself 🙂 I recently heard from a friend that his builder required a bank guarantee, and the bank charged a substantial 4% fee on the loan amount. That meant €10,000 were lost due to a clause in the contract. For us, a financing confirmation was sufficient. (That costs nothing.)
A few points stand out immediately, such as sanitary fixtures from Clivia Top / Topara. Faucets are from the Grohe EuroStyle series.Roof tiles are Creaton Magnum or Braas Harzer.For the heating system, it is specified that brands like Junkers, Vaillant, Elco, or equivalent will be used.For the doors, the brand Prüm is mentioned as the supplier.I’m selling you a car for 20,000! It’s a VW...!
It even has alloy wheels...!
Is that offer good or bad???
Only if you know the specific products can you get an idea if it matches your expectations...
Otherwise, you might end up with a Polo when you were expecting a Passat....
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