We are currently in the process of buying a former farmstead in Schleswig-Holstein (the notary is preparing the purchase contract) to combine living and working (self-employed with animals) under one roof. We, a family of four, will move in together with my mother-in-law on the property. The main residential part is basically ready to move in and is not a topic for discussion here. The part of the building previously used as a barn will be partially converted for my mother-in-law.
About 80m² (860 sq ft) will be used for the apartment, the section facing the courtyard is intended for my wife’s business use or as a guest WC for visitors to the farm. In the middle of the building, between the old residential unit and the barn, there is an unheated, continuous threshing floor. Access to the apartment can be via this area, which can also serve as a corridor for coats and shoes.
I sketched a draft for a possible layout, but somehow it doesn’t feel quite right. I have prepared a questionnaire, shortened for practical purposes:
Zoning Plan / Restrictions
Plot size: Building structure is fixed, listed building, the facade must not be significantly altered
Slope: no
Building envelope, building line and boundary: see above
Number of storeys: Conversion on the ground floor, upper floor is only a hayloft
Roof type: Gable roof
Architectural style: Desired – farmhouse / country house / built around 1880
Orientation: West and North
Other requirements: Facade is protected by historic preservation. Window and door openings are predetermined. In the center, there is a beam with two supporting pillars (circled in red on the floor plan). These cannot be moved. At the lower right is the old milk room. The walls between the milk room and the rest of the barn could be removed. The door shown at the lower left on the plan can be bricked up or equipped with a window / terrace door.
Client Requirements
Number of people, age: 1, newly retired, dog
Space needs on ground and upper floors: open-plan kitchen and living room, bedroom, utility room corner, bathroom
Office: family use
Guests per year: almost none, as there is an additional holiday apartment available
Open or closed layout: open plan
Traditional or modern construction style: traditional (not fully clear what is meant)
Open kitchen, kitchen island: yes, island optional
Number of dining seats: 5
Fireplace: no
Music/media wall: small media corner
Balcony, roof terrace: terrace and garden facing north and west, as shown in the pictures, 3D view shows 4 pm in summer
Garage, carport: separate, no need to consider
Vegetable garden, greenhouse: only terrace and secure dog run
Additional wishes / special features / daily routine, including reasons for preferences or rejections
The outdoor area faces north and west, and towards the west there is the road as well as two large (listed) chestnut trees in the garden. My biggest concerns are 1. enough natural light entering the house and 2. some sunlight in the garden as well. For the latter, there is a shared backyard with a southern exposure.
Behind the western wall is the road, outside the built-up area but with little traffic. The wall has not yet been built, but according to the new state building code in Schleswig-Holstein, a height of 2m (6.5 ft) is allowed.
House Design
Who designed the plans:
- Do-it-Yourself
What do you like most? Why?
Low finishing effort, walls use existing posts.
What do you not like? Why?
I would like to keep the door at the lower left on the plan as a second exit open, but I haven’t found a space for a media / sofa area.
Price estimate by architect/planner: N/A
Personal price limit for the house including equipment:
Much will be done by ourselves: drywall, floor construction and insulation, electrical work up to the connection box.
Preferred heating system:
Most likely a multi-split air conditioning system (4 indoor units, 1 outdoor unit in the hayloft) and wall-mounted air-to-water heat pump, not connected to the existing central heating system of the house.
If you had to give up, which details/finishes could you skip:
- could skip: everything else is negotiable
- can’t skip: daylight bathroom, open kitchen and dining area
Why is the design as it is now? e.g.:
Requirements of the building structure, historic preservation, and client needs.
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
How can the living area be planned and divided efficiently without ending up with one big hall and inefficient space use?
Thanks in advance 🙂
About 80m² (860 sq ft) will be used for the apartment, the section facing the courtyard is intended for my wife’s business use or as a guest WC for visitors to the farm. In the middle of the building, between the old residential unit and the barn, there is an unheated, continuous threshing floor. Access to the apartment can be via this area, which can also serve as a corridor for coats and shoes.
I sketched a draft for a possible layout, but somehow it doesn’t feel quite right. I have prepared a questionnaire, shortened for practical purposes:
Zoning Plan / Restrictions
Plot size: Building structure is fixed, listed building, the facade must not be significantly altered
Slope: no
Building envelope, building line and boundary: see above
Number of storeys: Conversion on the ground floor, upper floor is only a hayloft
Roof type: Gable roof
Architectural style: Desired – farmhouse / country house / built around 1880
Orientation: West and North
Other requirements: Facade is protected by historic preservation. Window and door openings are predetermined. In the center, there is a beam with two supporting pillars (circled in red on the floor plan). These cannot be moved. At the lower right is the old milk room. The walls between the milk room and the rest of the barn could be removed. The door shown at the lower left on the plan can be bricked up or equipped with a window / terrace door.
Client Requirements
Number of people, age: 1, newly retired, dog
Space needs on ground and upper floors: open-plan kitchen and living room, bedroom, utility room corner, bathroom
Office: family use
Guests per year: almost none, as there is an additional holiday apartment available
Open or closed layout: open plan
Traditional or modern construction style: traditional (not fully clear what is meant)
Open kitchen, kitchen island: yes, island optional
Number of dining seats: 5
Fireplace: no
Music/media wall: small media corner
Balcony, roof terrace: terrace and garden facing north and west, as shown in the pictures, 3D view shows 4 pm in summer
Garage, carport: separate, no need to consider
Vegetable garden, greenhouse: only terrace and secure dog run
Additional wishes / special features / daily routine, including reasons for preferences or rejections
The outdoor area faces north and west, and towards the west there is the road as well as two large (listed) chestnut trees in the garden. My biggest concerns are 1. enough natural light entering the house and 2. some sunlight in the garden as well. For the latter, there is a shared backyard with a southern exposure.
Behind the western wall is the road, outside the built-up area but with little traffic. The wall has not yet been built, but according to the new state building code in Schleswig-Holstein, a height of 2m (6.5 ft) is allowed.
House Design
Who designed the plans:
- Do-it-Yourself
What do you like most? Why?
Low finishing effort, walls use existing posts.
What do you not like? Why?
I would like to keep the door at the lower left on the plan as a second exit open, but I haven’t found a space for a media / sofa area.
Price estimate by architect/planner: N/A
Personal price limit for the house including equipment:
Much will be done by ourselves: drywall, floor construction and insulation, electrical work up to the connection box.
Preferred heating system:
Most likely a multi-split air conditioning system (4 indoor units, 1 outdoor unit in the hayloft) and wall-mounted air-to-water heat pump, not connected to the existing central heating system of the house.
If you had to give up, which details/finishes could you skip:
- could skip: everything else is negotiable
- can’t skip: daylight bathroom, open kitchen and dining area
Why is the design as it is now? e.g.:
Requirements of the building structure, historic preservation, and client needs.
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
How can the living area be planned and divided efficiently without ending up with one big hall and inefficient space use?
Thanks in advance 🙂
hanghaus2023 schrieb:
I find it strange to have to go through the kitchen from the bedroom to the bathroom.
Is a daylight bathroom mandatory? Yes, that bothers me too. Do you have any other suggestions to solve this? Yes, there should definitely be a window in the bathroom.
hanghaus2023 schrieb:
I wouldn’t like the wall around the property either. There will definitely be a privacy screen along the street side, 2m (6.5 ft) high. There is no sidewalk there anyway; it runs on the other side of the street.
hanghaus2023 schrieb:
Don’t you have any pictures? Especially with listed buildings, the exterior and garden/landscaping are important as well. Only ones from the real estate agent, and the corner of the house isn’t really visible there. The exterior view corresponds to the door and window layout as shown in the 3D rendering. Currently, only large chestnut trees stand outside; on the north side, there are concrete blocks and the manure slab, no greenery or walls yet. The wall on that side probably won’t be very high, just about 1 to 1.2m (3 to 4 ft) for the dog. Possibly no wall there at all, just a fence.
I will gladly provide pictures once the purchase contract is signed.
hanghaus2023 schrieb:
The large entrance door to the barn should become the main entrance, right? Historically, the barn was not the entrance but just the passage for the hay wagons. The main entrance is not through the barn but into our living area. This dates back to when many farmers earned significant money due to technological advances in agriculture and imitated the manor houses of the old nobility. Accordingly, the “hallway” there is designed quite generously. However, hardly anyone actually uses it (this has been the case with all older farmhouses we have seen so far—no one ever enters through the front door), as cars are usually parked at the back or side, and the kitchen with groceries is easier to reach from the rear.
The barn can also be designed as an entrance to the living unit from the street side, but not as heated living space. The large gate will be renewed, and a door integrated into the gate for easy access, but the barn itself will not be heated. The exact path of the wall along the street is not fixed. The distance from the house wall to the planned wall is 8.5m (28 ft), with nearly 2m (6.5 ft) of path width to the street in front. The “path” is only in front of the property, not continuous.
Attached is an aerial photo
dertill schrieb:
Unfortunately, it is not possible to integrate the barn area into the apartment. The large door facing the street must be preserved as is and cannot be replaced with, for example, a glass facade. Adding a structure in front is also not possible, since the door opens inward. That’s a pity. I was actually going to suggest that because of the windows facing the courtyard.
Okay, the barn area is basically a covered courtyard and access space, a common corridor, and a cloakroom.
So the area you have already marked remains the only option. I will take a look over the weekend to see if I can come up with an alternative proposal.
dertill schrieb:
Yes, but it also needs to be available for family and visitors; rental income is not included in the financing considerations. Yes, but if it is rented out, it cannot be used for private guests.
We had similar discussions last year about an artificial granny flat: it was intended to serve as an office and guest room, but students were supposed to rent it… you cannot just evict your tenants on a whim 😉
ypg schrieb:
Then the area you have already marked will remain. I will try to come up with an alternative suggestion over the weekend. That was also our thought during the initial inspection—that it would be a great large window—but for various reasons, it’s not possible.
Thanks, I’m looking forward to it.
ypg schrieb:
… you can’t just kick your tenants out like that Yes, but we can simply not rent it out during planned visits. For birthdays, etc.
dertill schrieb:
At the initial inspection, we also thought it would be a great large window, but for various reasons, it’s not possible.
Thanks, I’m already looking forward to it. What about the water pipes? The kitchen and bathroom are planned on the exterior side according to the floor plan. Will new pipes be installed there?
I’m asking
You want to close off the ceiling area, meaning the roof? That’s interesting in terms of natural daylight lighting inside the house.
ypg schrieb:
What about the water pipes? On the plan, the kitchen and bathroom are planned on the exterior side. Will there be new pipes installed?
I'm asking for a friend... regarding the most practical bathroom and kitchen layout for the apartment.
Are you planning to close off the ceiling area, meaning the roof? This is interesting in terms of natural daylight entering the house. The house’s own water supply system is shown in the upper right corner of the plan, on the opposite side of the barn area, in the basement.
Since only cold water is provided there and heating will happen in the new living area, you have freedom to plan.
I believe skylights would only be possible with considerable effort. The ceiling is already closed, above that there is a 5m (16 ft) high hayloft, and then the roof.
I have to admit that I’m also struggling with the space you’ve mentally reserved for the apartment, especially with the windows you’ve placed. There is hardly any usable wall space, and everything I try feels awkward.
(negative) example:
However, I also have to admit that I kind of took the wall on the west side, where the pantry is, as fixed. Probably because I like when an old element remains visible. So I could try again with that version if I decide to remove it 😉
But I also saw the possibility to use the windows in the other area and plan the kitchen as an interior room.
What came out of that I consider successful. Especially worth mentioning is that a lot of usable wall space was created. If the support column in the hallway is a problem, it can be moved against a wall:
What do you think, @dertill?
(negative) example:
However, I also have to admit that I kind of took the wall on the west side, where the pantry is, as fixed. Probably because I like when an old element remains visible. So I could try again with that version if I decide to remove it 😉
But I also saw the possibility to use the windows in the other area and plan the kitchen as an interior room.
What came out of that I consider successful. Especially worth mentioning is that a lot of usable wall space was created. If the support column in the hallway is a problem, it can be moved against a wall:
What do you think, @dertill?
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