ᐅ Planning to install solar panels – options: 19 kW peak, 25 kW peak, 30 kW peak, battery storage?
Created on: 27 Mar 2022 09:28
O
Obermuh
Good morning everyone,
We are planning to install a photovoltaic system, and I have finally received a first offer. At the moment, everyone seems very busy, as out of three requested providers, only one responded after several weeks. Compared to the many threads here, the price seems a bit high, but this is somewhat offset by the fact that installation could theoretically still take place in April (depending on the module selection, see below).
I am aware of the basic discussion about whether or not to include a battery storage system. The offers I received all include storage systems for now.
Local conditions:
Flat roof with nearly 230 sqm (2,475 sq ft) of usable area, completely unshaded.
Previous year’s consumption: 12,800 kWh – 8,300 kWh measured by heat pump meter, 4,500 kWh household meter.
I recently got an electric car, and I expect an additional annual demand of around 4,000 kWh.
Expected yield: 900 kWh per kWp.
Offered options:
Available modules, same price with identical total output:
Hyundai HiE-S410VG (only available again from May)
Solarwatt Classic H1.1 Pure 375 (in stock with the provider)
Optional storage systems:
E3DC S10X 14 kWh
E3DC S10E Pro 19.5 kWh
Complete system offers (net):
19.68 kWp – €22,828
+ 14 kWh storage €13,250
Optional 19.5 kWh storage €18,630
24.6 kWp – €27,552
+ 14 kWh storage €13,250
Optional 19.5 kWh storage €18,630
According to the provider, 30 kWp could also be installed on the roof, but this would require a ripple control receiver. This option is available on request.
My questions:
- Are these offers still reasonable or overpriced?
- Does it make sense to choose the slightly “weaker” Solarwatt modules that are available now? Considering the current situation, is it better to have “a bird in the hand than two in the bush”?
- Is a battery storage system advisable given our relatively high consumption and low feed-in tariff? Mathematically probably not, but given the recent trends in the energy market, could it be a worthwhile investment for greater independence and peace of mind?
- Is it worth having a controllable wallbox (E3DC Connect)? It seems to be included in the offer but not separately priced. I already have a CEE32 socket in the garage and charge with a Juice Booster at up to 22 kW (missed out on the wallbox subsidy, so I got approval from the grid operator for 22 instead of 11 kW).
My reasoning: If I can achieve around 60% self-sufficiency with the storage, I would save €2,380 per year at the current electricity price of €0.31/kWh (31c/kWh). This means the “smaller” system with 19.68 kWp and 14 kWh of storage would pay for itself in 18 years, excluding feed-in and maintenance costs.
We are planning to install a photovoltaic system, and I have finally received a first offer. At the moment, everyone seems very busy, as out of three requested providers, only one responded after several weeks. Compared to the many threads here, the price seems a bit high, but this is somewhat offset by the fact that installation could theoretically still take place in April (depending on the module selection, see below).
I am aware of the basic discussion about whether or not to include a battery storage system. The offers I received all include storage systems for now.
Local conditions:
Flat roof with nearly 230 sqm (2,475 sq ft) of usable area, completely unshaded.
Previous year’s consumption: 12,800 kWh – 8,300 kWh measured by heat pump meter, 4,500 kWh household meter.
I recently got an electric car, and I expect an additional annual demand of around 4,000 kWh.
Expected yield: 900 kWh per kWp.
Offered options:
Available modules, same price with identical total output:
Hyundai HiE-S410VG (only available again from May)
Solarwatt Classic H1.1 Pure 375 (in stock with the provider)
Optional storage systems:
E3DC S10X 14 kWh
E3DC S10E Pro 19.5 kWh
Complete system offers (net):
19.68 kWp – €22,828
+ 14 kWh storage €13,250
Optional 19.5 kWh storage €18,630
24.6 kWp – €27,552
+ 14 kWh storage €13,250
Optional 19.5 kWh storage €18,630
According to the provider, 30 kWp could also be installed on the roof, but this would require a ripple control receiver. This option is available on request.
My questions:
- Are these offers still reasonable or overpriced?
- Does it make sense to choose the slightly “weaker” Solarwatt modules that are available now? Considering the current situation, is it better to have “a bird in the hand than two in the bush”?
- Is a battery storage system advisable given our relatively high consumption and low feed-in tariff? Mathematically probably not, but given the recent trends in the energy market, could it be a worthwhile investment for greater independence and peace of mind?
- Is it worth having a controllable wallbox (E3DC Connect)? It seems to be included in the offer but not separately priced. I already have a CEE32 socket in the garage and charge with a Juice Booster at up to 22 kW (missed out on the wallbox subsidy, so I got approval from the grid operator for 22 instead of 11 kW).
My reasoning: If I can achieve around 60% self-sufficiency with the storage, I would save €2,380 per year at the current electricity price of €0.31/kWh (31c/kWh). This means the “smaller” system with 19.68 kWp and 14 kWh of storage would pay for itself in 18 years, excluding feed-in and maintenance costs.
M
Martial.white27 Mar 2022 13:20@Deliverer has already said everything. Full agreement. I’ll say it again just to be sure: make the roof cavity as full as possible; attic space is usually more of an emotional than a rational decision.
(The electricity consumption also sounds high for bathing 3 to 4 times a week, unless you fill the 700-liter (185-gallon) tub completely each time.)
(The electricity consumption also sounds high for bathing 3 to 4 times a week, unless you fill the 700-liter (185-gallon) tub completely each time.)
P
Peter Pohlmann27 Mar 2022 21:00A Huawei system is very good and, most importantly, affordable. Even more important, it is largely available.
Basically, there are hardly any components left on the market right now. Starting from modules to inverters or cables and even smart meters, etc.
I don’t expect a quick improvement. I estimate a calm down period of maybe 5 years, if at all. Anyone who doesn’t have a system yet will probably not get one anymore.
Hybrid inverters for storage solutions are practically unavailable, regardless of the manufacturer.
There are still Huawei storage units on the open market. 15 kW (33 kWh) for 8,000 euros. Modules can still be found from various sellers on classified sites like Ebay Kleinanzeigen, with prices actually increasing daily. However, you should place an order there very promptly. Inverters must be ordered with uncertain delivery times.
Smart meters are hardly available. Mounting rails, I don’t know, but they will certainly be very expensive. There are still Huawei inverters with immediate delivery, but they cost twice as much. Nevertheless, they are still worth it economically.
Roughly, you can calculate the costs for an order placed online today as follows:
Trina Vertex module 400 W about 200 euros per module
15 kW (33 kWh) Huawei Luna 2000 storage just under 8,000 euros including shipping
Huawei Sun 10 KTL M1, three-phase about 3,500 euros with immediate delivery
Huawei smart meter 280 euros with immediate delivery
All from Ebay or online shops, etc.
Other systems like Fronius with BYD storage are currently not available on the market.
Heat pumps are also now only very rarely available.
My advice: configure the system yourself and order what is available tomorrow morning. Anyone who waits another week will get nothing anymore.
The demand is huge and the warehouses are empty.
Basically, there are hardly any components left on the market right now. Starting from modules to inverters or cables and even smart meters, etc.
I don’t expect a quick improvement. I estimate a calm down period of maybe 5 years, if at all. Anyone who doesn’t have a system yet will probably not get one anymore.
Hybrid inverters for storage solutions are practically unavailable, regardless of the manufacturer.
There are still Huawei storage units on the open market. 15 kW (33 kWh) for 8,000 euros. Modules can still be found from various sellers on classified sites like Ebay Kleinanzeigen, with prices actually increasing daily. However, you should place an order there very promptly. Inverters must be ordered with uncertain delivery times.
Smart meters are hardly available. Mounting rails, I don’t know, but they will certainly be very expensive. There are still Huawei inverters with immediate delivery, but they cost twice as much. Nevertheless, they are still worth it economically.
Roughly, you can calculate the costs for an order placed online today as follows:
Trina Vertex module 400 W about 200 euros per module
15 kW (33 kWh) Huawei Luna 2000 storage just under 8,000 euros including shipping
Huawei Sun 10 KTL M1, three-phase about 3,500 euros with immediate delivery
Huawei smart meter 280 euros with immediate delivery
All from Ebay or online shops, etc.
Other systems like Fronius with BYD storage are currently not available on the market.
Heat pumps are also now only very rarely available.
My advice: configure the system yourself and order what is available tomorrow morning. Anyone who waits another week will get nothing anymore.
The demand is huge and the warehouses are empty.
Peter Pohlmann schrieb:
Those who don’t have anything yet won’t get anything anymore. Peter Pohlmann schrieb:
Modules are still available from various sellers on Ebay Classifieds, with prices actually rising daily. However, orders should be placed there very quickly. Peter Pohlmann schrieb:
Those who don’t have anything yet won’t get anything anymore. But he has an offer with "immediate" installation??? Ebay Classifieds wouldn’t be my first choice as a source for such an investment. The risk of receiving defective or used goods, or something else, is probably quite high there.
Peter Pohlmann schrieb:
My tip: configure the system yourself and order whatever is available tomorrow morning. Anyone who waits another week won’t get anything anymore. For a long time. Okay, then the pallets will be standing in the driveway, but who exactly will then get them onto the roof and connect them? That’s basically a no-go at a time when it’s hard to find electricians even for proper contracts.
His offer is actually perfect. Remove the battery and place the order. And if a battery is still needed, then have alternatives offered and accept a longer delivery time for the battery. That way, you can at least benefit from the tax incentives.
Thanks for the many contributions. I will address the topic of heat pump consumption separately. I was surprised by the high consumption but have no experience yet with a heat pump and such a large area. We only moved into the new build in March 2020.
The weaker Solarwatt modules with 375 Wp (watt peak) for the heat pump are immediately available or in stock from the supplier, while the Hyundai modules with 410 Wp are only available from May. Because of the uncertainties regarding delivery times, I am considering going with Solarwatt and fully covering the roof with them. They will be mounted with a tilt angle of 10 degrees.
Attached is the layout plan for the Solarwatt modules. Apparently, another 12 can be added, which would bring the total to about 30 kWp (the rectangular section in the middle is our open atrium).
Whether to include a storage system or not, I still need to think about. Despite the lack of profitability, it somehow feels interesting to me.
The weaker Solarwatt modules with 375 Wp (watt peak) for the heat pump are immediately available or in stock from the supplier, while the Hyundai modules with 410 Wp are only available from May. Because of the uncertainties regarding delivery times, I am considering going with Solarwatt and fully covering the roof with them. They will be mounted with a tilt angle of 10 degrees.
Attached is the layout plan for the Solarwatt modules. Apparently, another 12 can be added, which would bring the total to about 30 kWp (the rectangular section in the middle is our open atrium).
Whether to include a storage system or not, I still need to think about. Despite the lack of profitability, it somehow feels interesting to me.
P
Peter Pohlmann27 Mar 2022 22:11It strikes me as somewhat odd that the Solarwatt modules are still the only ones immediately available from my supplier. Although not many are left, without being familiar with these modules, they somehow seem to be presented as slow-moving stock.
Otherwise, it is entirely up to each individual whether to source the photovoltaic components independently or to contact their solar installer. This mainly depends on their level of risk aversion.
All suppliers say that new stock is expected to arrive around May. Whether this actually happens is, of course, another matter. At the moment, the market is simply in a state of panic. Everyone is desperately trying to secure the last available products.
In this situation, storing delivered modules is the least of the problems.
Without available materials, building is not possible. There are still some products to be purchased, but the window of opportunity is closing rapidly. And it makes no difference whether it is sunflower oil or a few roof battens.
For new contracts, we are already paying 45 cents per kWh for electricity, well above current estimates whether with or without storage.
The specified heat pump, with an 8400 kWh (9000 kWh) consumption, then costs about 3750 euros in electricity per year. The real problem is relying on photovoltaic systems that simply are not available. That’s really unfortunate.
Otherwise, it is entirely up to each individual whether to source the photovoltaic components independently or to contact their solar installer. This mainly depends on their level of risk aversion.
All suppliers say that new stock is expected to arrive around May. Whether this actually happens is, of course, another matter. At the moment, the market is simply in a state of panic. Everyone is desperately trying to secure the last available products.
In this situation, storing delivered modules is the least of the problems.
Without available materials, building is not possible. There are still some products to be purchased, but the window of opportunity is closing rapidly. And it makes no difference whether it is sunflower oil or a few roof battens.
For new contracts, we are already paying 45 cents per kWh for electricity, well above current estimates whether with or without storage.
The specified heat pump, with an 8400 kWh (9000 kWh) consumption, then costs about 3750 euros in electricity per year. The real problem is relying on photovoltaic systems that simply are not available. That’s really unfortunate.
D
Deliverer27 Mar 2022 23:07375 watts is no longer top of the line, but it is still a worthwhile area. Solarwatt has been on the market for a long time and is a reliable manufacturer. If you can secure them reliably and have someone to install them promptly, I would go for it.
You can certainly consider energy storage options, but preferably only once the roof is fully covered. The kids will thank you for it.
You can certainly consider energy storage options, but preferably only once the roof is fully covered. The kids will thank you for it.
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