Hello,
we are building a mid-terrace house and have the following issue:
The right neighbor is already building, so the construction of the party wall with the neighbor is clear. It consists of 17.5cm (7 inches) calcium silicate brick plus 2cm (1 inch) Odenwald board or mineral wool. So it will be calcium silicate brick – 2x 2cm (1 inch) Odenwald board – calcium silicate brick. According to my information, this is the standard construction method.
However, the left plot will not be developed in the foreseeable future! Therefore, the question arises how the left wall (which for now is an exterior wall) should be constructed so that it is protected from the weather and insulated. Our builder’s suggestion is also to use a 17.5cm (7 inches) calcium silicate brick plus 6cm (2.4 inches) insulation boards plus plaster, built right on the property boundary. This is said to be the optimal solution regarding moderate thermal insulation until the neighboring terrace house is built. The insulation should remain in place when the left side is eventually developed.
Is this a sensible approach? Are there any disadvantages in terms of sound insulation towards the neighbor when using the 6cm (2.4 inches) insulation boards compared to the Odenwald boards or bitumen-treated soft fiber boards, as they are also called?
For the 6cm (2.4 inches) insulation, we have already been informed of an additional cost of about 2000€, but the exact amount is not yet known. The left wall has approximately 100m² (1076 square feet) of surface area. Does anyone know how the price of the 2cm (1 inch) Odenwald boards compares to the 6cm (2.4 inches) insulation boards? Because only if the insulation boards are significantly more expensive than the Odenwald board, can I understand the price increase. The Odenwald board would then be omitted.
When the neighbor eventually builds, will the Odenwald board be applied to our plaster, or how is the likely construction detail?
Maybe someone here has already experienced a similar situation.
Thanks in advance!
we are building a mid-terrace house and have the following issue:
The right neighbor is already building, so the construction of the party wall with the neighbor is clear. It consists of 17.5cm (7 inches) calcium silicate brick plus 2cm (1 inch) Odenwald board or mineral wool. So it will be calcium silicate brick – 2x 2cm (1 inch) Odenwald board – calcium silicate brick. According to my information, this is the standard construction method.
However, the left plot will not be developed in the foreseeable future! Therefore, the question arises how the left wall (which for now is an exterior wall) should be constructed so that it is protected from the weather and insulated. Our builder’s suggestion is also to use a 17.5cm (7 inches) calcium silicate brick plus 6cm (2.4 inches) insulation boards plus plaster, built right on the property boundary. This is said to be the optimal solution regarding moderate thermal insulation until the neighboring terrace house is built. The insulation should remain in place when the left side is eventually developed.
Is this a sensible approach? Are there any disadvantages in terms of sound insulation towards the neighbor when using the 6cm (2.4 inches) insulation boards compared to the Odenwald boards or bitumen-treated soft fiber boards, as they are also called?
For the 6cm (2.4 inches) insulation, we have already been informed of an additional cost of about 2000€, but the exact amount is not yet known. The left wall has approximately 100m² (1076 square feet) of surface area. Does anyone know how the price of the 2cm (1 inch) Odenwald boards compares to the 6cm (2.4 inches) insulation boards? Because only if the insulation boards are significantly more expensive than the Odenwald board, can I understand the price increase. The Odenwald board would then be omitted.
When the neighbor eventually builds, will the Odenwald board be applied to our plaster, or how is the likely construction detail?
Maybe someone here has already experienced a similar situation.
Thanks in advance!
B
Bauexperte17 Dec 2010 17:17Hello Kai,
If a 17.5cm (7 inches) sand-lime brick wall was planned from the start, in my opinion only an extra charge for the external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS) including synthetic resin render should be invoiced.
I don’t understand what you mean by “soundproofing boards,” since ETICS is usually used for thermal insulation and not for soundproofing; therefore, there should be no price difference here.
Kind regards (I have to go to an appointment now)
KaiHawaii schrieb:
Ok, now I understand. But then I would expect a much lower price for a similar wall area. The only additional cost should be for the material surcharge of the 6cm (2.4 inches) insulation boards, or what do you think? Are the insulation boards really more expensive than the usual soundproofing boards, sorry to ask again?
If a 17.5cm (7 inches) sand-lime brick wall was planned from the start, in my opinion only an extra charge for the external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS) including synthetic resin render should be invoiced.
I don’t understand what you mean by “soundproofing boards,” since ETICS is usually used for thermal insulation and not for soundproofing; therefore, there should be no price difference here.
Kind regards (I have to go to an appointment now)
K
KaiHawaii17 Dec 2010 17:40Hello,
by soundproofing panels, I mean the panels typically installed between houses when a neighbor is also building their house. In my opinion, these panels should already be included in the cost calculation for a mid-terrace house.
On our left side, where the neighbor is currently missing, the 6cm (2.4 inches) external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS) plus plaster will be applied to the 17.5cm (6.9 inches) calcium silicate block wall, as discussed above. Therefore, the builder saves the 2cm (0.8 inches) panel that would normally be installed, and in my view, that should be deducted from the additional cost of the ETICS. Especially since, according to what I found online, these panels are even more expensive than the 6cm (2.4 inches) insulation boards.
But perhaps someone can add more information on this!?
by soundproofing panels, I mean the panels typically installed between houses when a neighbor is also building their house. In my opinion, these panels should already be included in the cost calculation for a mid-terrace house.
On our left side, where the neighbor is currently missing, the 6cm (2.4 inches) external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS) plus plaster will be applied to the 17.5cm (6.9 inches) calcium silicate block wall, as discussed above. Therefore, the builder saves the 2cm (0.8 inches) panel that would normally be installed, and in my view, that should be deducted from the additional cost of the ETICS. Especially since, according to what I found online, these panels are even more expensive than the 6cm (2.4 inches) insulation boards.
But perhaps someone can add more information on this!?
B
Bauexperte17 Dec 2010 21:58Good evening Kai,
Only your builder can answer this question—I'm not familiar with their calculations.
Simply put: modern semi-detached houses have two separate partition walls (party walls) with insulation - air gap - insulation between them; just ask your builder how the additional costs are divided—perhaps they have already deducted the cost of the usual insulation, if this was included in the initial calculation.
Kind regards
KaiHawaii schrieb:
…by soundproofing panels, I mean the panels that are usually installed between houses when a neighbor is also building their house. In my opinion, these panels should already be included in the calculation of a mid-terrace house.
Only your builder can answer this question—I'm not familiar with their calculations.
KaiHawaii schrieb:
On our left side, where the neighbor is currently absent, the 6cm (2.4 inches) external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS) plus render will be applied to the 17.5cm (6.9 inches) sand-lime brick wall, as already discussed above. Therefore, the builder can skip the usual 2cm (0.8 inches) panel, which would normally be installed, and in my opinion, this should be deducted from the additional cost of the ETICS.
Simply put: modern semi-detached houses have two separate partition walls (party walls) with insulation - air gap - insulation between them; just ask your builder how the additional costs are divided—perhaps they have already deducted the cost of the usual insulation, if this was included in the initial calculation.
Kind regards
K
KaiHawaii21 Dec 2010 19:05Hello,
the townhouses are all individually designed and built. They are not from a developer. Therefore, the depth is not fixed, but the building line, where the house must start, is defined (5m (16.4 ft) from the edge of the sidewalk). We are about one meter (3.3 ft) higher compared to the right neighbor. We will need additional insulation there; I assume your question referred to that, right?
The front and rear sides are therefore likely constructed differently depending on the design. For us, a 36.5cm (14.4 inches) Poroton wall without extra insulation is currently planned.
the townhouses are all individually designed and built. They are not from a developer. Therefore, the depth is not fixed, but the building line, where the house must start, is defined (5m (16.4 ft) from the edge of the sidewalk). We are about one meter (3.3 ft) higher compared to the right neighbor. We will need additional insulation there; I assume your question referred to that, right?
The front and rear sides are therefore likely constructed differently depending on the design. For us, a 36.5cm (14.4 inches) Poroton wall without extra insulation is currently planned.
Exactly.. my question referred to the wall offsets at the side property lines.
If the calcium silicate brick wall should also continue there to achieve a flush inner wall edge (that is, also extending over the recessed or protruding boundary walls to the neighbors), then the insulation obviously won’t be sufficient in those areas. If the insulation is increased on the outside of the wall, you have to build beyond the property line to the neighbor… this must be permitted and officially recorded. Using Poroton blocks would not work either, as the wall thicknesses along the boundary walls wouldn’t align properly. This would cause offsets… and if these cannot be concealed by interior partition walls, the result will unfortunately look quite unsightly. Also, according to current thermal insulation requirements, a relatively high-quality Poroton block would be necessary to meet the standards at 36.5 cm (14.4 inches) thickness.
Additionally, there is the problem that you don’t know when the neighbor will connect their construction to the insulated calcium silicate wall. The 6 cm (2.4 inches) insulation is obviously insufficient… also, the junction between the wall with external insulation and the Poroton wall (if finished with standard lightweight plaster) would need to be addressed, as these materials do not ideally match.
If the calcium silicate brick wall should also continue there to achieve a flush inner wall edge (that is, also extending over the recessed or protruding boundary walls to the neighbors), then the insulation obviously won’t be sufficient in those areas. If the insulation is increased on the outside of the wall, you have to build beyond the property line to the neighbor… this must be permitted and officially recorded. Using Poroton blocks would not work either, as the wall thicknesses along the boundary walls wouldn’t align properly. This would cause offsets… and if these cannot be concealed by interior partition walls, the result will unfortunately look quite unsightly. Also, according to current thermal insulation requirements, a relatively high-quality Poroton block would be necessary to meet the standards at 36.5 cm (14.4 inches) thickness.
Additionally, there is the problem that you don’t know when the neighbor will connect their construction to the insulated calcium silicate wall. The 6 cm (2.4 inches) insulation is obviously insufficient… also, the junction between the wall with external insulation and the Poroton wall (if finished with standard lightweight plaster) would need to be addressed, as these materials do not ideally match.
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