Dear forum members,
We bought a plot of land last autumn and are currently deep into the floor plan design. We would like to share our current draft with you and welcome any comments and opinions.
[F]irst some preliminary information about the plot and its buildability:[/F]
Best regards
We bought a plot of land last autumn and are currently deep into the floor plan design. We would like to share our current draft with you and welcome any comments and opinions.
[F]irst some preliminary information about the plot and its buildability:[/F]
- 1000 m² (10,764 sq ft) rear plot, southwest facing (so southwest is on the left side of the site plan)
- Building boundary up to approx. 16 m (52 ft) behind the property line (up to the dashed line on the site plan)
- No zoning plan (construction according to § 34 of the Building Code)
- Groundwater at surface level and peaty soil (exact geotechnical report pending), so piled foundation required and no basement
- Affordable! (Our maximum budget for the house including foundation slab is €230,000)
- Country house style
- Bright, large windows facing south/garden
- Open living/dining/kitchen area
- Family of four, 1 bedroom and 2 children’s rooms
- Not oversized, max 150 m² (1,615 sq ft), preferably less
- Solid construction using Ytong blocks (for us the most cost-effective option, although we would have liked to build with wood as well).
- Developed ourselves after studying various floor plans (including from the book "Affordable Building with a Small Budget" by Achim Linhardt) with support from architect friends and our planner (an independent civil engineer).
- Dimensions 12.50 x 7.50 m (41 x 25 ft) (the measurements shown on the site plan are from an earlier draft).
- What we like: open living area, all main rooms have large windows facing the garden, efficient size, although the children’s and bedroom could be smaller, sewing/work nook behind the stairs upstairs, plenty of wall space for large wardrobes in the upstairs bedroom and hallway on the ground floor, light shaft in the stairwell, staircase (we originally wanted a straight run staircase but it would have taken too much space; the one with three quarter turns is also fine with us).
- What we don’t like 100% yet: the height of the house from the outside. It is currently planned as a two-story house with an eaves height of 6.2 m (20 ft), with the ground floor 2.84 m (9 ft 4 in) high and the upper floor 2.60 m (8 ft 6 in) high. The gable roof will be an uninsulated, unfinished cold roof, mainly because of the economical prefabricated truss construction method. This is a bit disappointing because I really like sloped ceilings and did not want the character of a townhouse. Lowering the roof with a knee wall of about 1.90 m (6 ft 3 in) and an insulated roof with open sloped ceilings would probably be more expensive due to the rafter/beam construction. We would also lose the garden view through the floor-to-ceiling bedroom windows.
- Simple: What do you think about the floor plan?
- Can you still imagine the relatively tall two-story house having a country house character? Maybe it depends on the facade design and choice of materials? Do you think it looks too “blocky,” especially from the front entrance side? Or would a lower eaves height with an attic conversion including a knee wall be preferable?
- We are still unsure how to arrange the windows on the garden side. The drawing with the elevations shows two possible versions. We actually prefer it when the upper floor window is centered over the lower window front. However, this does not align the interior line of sight from the entrance door to the garden/patio door (see ground floor plan). This represents version two; for version one, the window front would have to be shifted about one window width to the right, so that the patio door is behind the dining table. With the window front shifted left, the interior looks better to us, but from the outside it looks strange if it is offset from the upper floor window, right? What do you think?
Best regards
la.schnute5 Mar 2020 12:52Regarding Storage Space
You put it nicely, and that's exactly it: We definitely consume and buy very little. We prefer to live a bit more simply. I don’t find it radical... as city dwellers, this is actually the norm. The children’s toys are manageable; currently, both kids fit quite well into a 15m² (160 ft²) room in our apartment. I know several families in Berlin living even more minimally, with even less space (three families with two children each, living in about 55–75m² (590–810 ft²) apartments, and they don’t plan to move). We also don’t stockpile excessively, not even drinks. We keep about 5 packs of juice in reserve; the rest is at the supermarket 8 minutes on foot from the property. Otherwise, we just drink tap water. I do envision having a single shelf in the utility room where I can store some homemade jam. Of course, life in our apartment doesn’t directly translate to living in a house. We will certainly accumulate more stuff, mainly tools, garden equipment, and items that help maintain the house and property. These can be stored well in garden sheds. We plan to keep the storage space intentionally quite lean.
Ah, our children are currently 6 and 3 years old. So they don’t have strong opinions on the subject yet. But even now, privacy is quite important to them. I first suggested the idea some friends of ours used in their new house: a large children’s room with a partition wall to be added later. But they immediately said they want their own rooms. They’ll get them, no problem. Ultimately, the children’s room is a child’s personal domain, their retreat. Like @hampshire, I’ve noticed that gaming happens there. To me, a shared family PC seems somewhat outdated given smartphones and tablets. So for us, a fully open floor plan really isn’t an option because personal preferences vary greatly. Regarding my needs and those of my partner, it gets more interesting because we don’t always agree either. I don’t need a full wall for the TV and speakers in the living room (@chrisw81, that’s why the couch is arranged this way; where do you have your TV?), while he doesn’t care much about the sewing corner...
Thanks for your suggestions and support. I have to say, I like your floor plan; the living area remains nicely open but is more straightforward. You’re right—I just revisited the budget and calculations, and to my horror realized we seriously miscalculated one part. A really stupid mistake, and the whole thing will cost about €20,000 (around $22,000) more than planned, meaning we’d be at €235,000 (around $260,000)... with price increases and the usual percentage buffer, that’s hardly realistic anymore. Tonight, the family council will discuss this, but the house will have to become a lot smaller and simpler. The ceiling height is out, the staircase will be more efficient as you suggested... we’ll see. If worst comes to worst, a semi-detached house on the plot is also possible, then we’d have to sell half...
hampshire schrieb:
The storage space in your design is very limited and has quite radical implications for consumption habits. You really have to want this and put it into practice. It’s not easy with small children in the house.
You put it nicely, and that's exactly it: We definitely consume and buy very little. We prefer to live a bit more simply. I don’t find it radical... as city dwellers, this is actually the norm. The children’s toys are manageable; currently, both kids fit quite well into a 15m² (160 ft²) room in our apartment. I know several families in Berlin living even more minimally, with even less space (three families with two children each, living in about 55–75m² (590–810 ft²) apartments, and they don’t plan to move). We also don’t stockpile excessively, not even drinks. We keep about 5 packs of juice in reserve; the rest is at the supermarket 8 minutes on foot from the property. Otherwise, we just drink tap water. I do envision having a single shelf in the utility room where I can store some homemade jam. Of course, life in our apartment doesn’t directly translate to living in a house. We will certainly accumulate more stuff, mainly tools, garden equipment, and items that help maintain the house and property. These can be stored well in garden sheds. We plan to keep the storage space intentionally quite lean.
Matthew03 schrieb:
What strikes me a lot: you present your needs as if they are everyone’s. Is that 100% true? Your first post only mentioned 4 people, not the ages of the kids... with such openness, might you be imposing your ideas on your children? That’s okay, of course—you’re paying for the house, not the kids. But maybe as teenagers they want a quiet place downstairs to play on the PC while you watch TV on the sofa, and you disturb each other just as much as when they want to Skype a holiday fling and Mom overhears everything.
I just want to point out that even in families who say “we want everything open, we like each other so much, we are a family, etc...”, there might be family members like you who want a retreat once in a while, independent of the children’s rooms.
I prefer @ypg’s floor plan. You can open or leave a door open, but you can’t close a door that isn’t there.
Ah, our children are currently 6 and 3 years old. So they don’t have strong opinions on the subject yet. But even now, privacy is quite important to them. I first suggested the idea some friends of ours used in their new house: a large children’s room with a partition wall to be added later. But they immediately said they want their own rooms. They’ll get them, no problem. Ultimately, the children’s room is a child’s personal domain, their retreat. Like @hampshire, I’ve noticed that gaming happens there. To me, a shared family PC seems somewhat outdated given smartphones and tablets. So for us, a fully open floor plan really isn’t an option because personal preferences vary greatly. Regarding my needs and those of my partner, it gets more interesting because we don’t always agree either. I don’t need a full wall for the TV and speakers in the living room (@chrisw81, that’s why the couch is arranged this way; where do you have your TV?), while he doesn’t care much about the sewing corner...
kaho674 schrieb:
Well, not everyone can build 200m² (2,150 ft²). The plot is purchased, and more is simply not possible now. So you have to make the best of it. Garden sheds can really ease things and are quick to build. Otherwise, you have to pull yourself together.
The house shape might be original, but there’s a reason why such designs aren’t standard. Some rooms have awkward depths, poor layouts, and feel uncomfortable. That happens when optimizing only one floor and then squeezing everything else into a fixed shell.
A ceiling height of 2.84m (9 ft 4 in) is, in my opinion, nonsense for this house size. You should forget about that. Or do you want to create a church? When building something affordable and compact for two kids, there’s no room for a 5m (16 ft) staircase with a gallery or atrium. Every centimeter counts here. And falling down the stairs with two children is even worse.
Here’s a draft with 2.70m (8 ft 10 in) ceiling height and roughly the same floor area:
[ATTACH alt="EG.jpg"]43765[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH alt="OG.jpg"]43764[/ATTACH]
How experienced are you with roof construction? If you’re really doing it yourselves, you could plan a small ground-floor extension for the technical room to gain more space. The roof could then extend as a carport with a lean-to roof attached. That should be easy enough for you.
Thanks for your suggestions and support. I have to say, I like your floor plan; the living area remains nicely open but is more straightforward. You’re right—I just revisited the budget and calculations, and to my horror realized we seriously miscalculated one part. A really stupid mistake, and the whole thing will cost about €20,000 (around $22,000) more than planned, meaning we’d be at €235,000 (around $260,000)... with price increases and the usual percentage buffer, that’s hardly realistic anymore. Tonight, the family council will discuss this, but the house will have to become a lot smaller and simpler. The ceiling height is out, the staircase will be more efficient as you suggested... we’ll see. If worst comes to worst, a semi-detached house on the plot is also possible, then we’d have to sell half...
la.schnute schrieb:
I wouldn’t need a full wall for the TV and speakers in the living room (@chrisw81, that’s why the sofa is positioned that way; where do you have your TV?) We thought about it for a long time and then chose a corner sofa, with one side in front of (your) window and the other along the opposite exterior wall. Thanks to the second side, you can still (to some extent) look outside. I would have preferred a free window as well, but then I would have had to position the sofa like you or give up a lot of furniture for the TV and so on, which you obviously need.
We don’t have an open wall toward the office either; it’s closed off and there we have the TV, shelving, and also the fireplace. Because of how we arranged the sofa, we can also easily see the fireplace.
But yes, because of your open floor plan you’re obviously limited in available wall space, so there really might not be an alternative. I just wanted to point that out.
My wife is very strict when it comes to the children’s TV consumption (no TV during the week). This currently sometimes causes friction when I want to watch TV in the living room and the children are sitting at the dining table in the evening.
Just sharing from current experience.
Just sharing from current experience.
la.schnute schrieb:
(the first thing we did in our rental apartment was to take the kitchen door off its hinges ) Matthew03 schrieb:
I just want to point out that even for people who say "we want everything open, we really like each other, we are a family, etc..." — there might be family members like you who occasionally want a private retreat, regardless of the kids’ rooms. You know, I also like openness. We have an open hallway, an open living room ceiling, and a gallery. Basically, three quarters of the ground floor is open.
However, it gets annoying when I have a card night or my husband wants to watch soccer. We’re not really the type for ladies’ or guys’ nights anyway, luckily. But it already bothers one of us when the other is doing their workout with loud music. We often arrange things like "I’ll go cycling now, then you can do kickboxing," etc. But what do you do? What do you do as a family of four when the teenagers want to bake pizza with friends undisturbed? “Mom, tone it down and close the door” doesn’t really work. Mom then doesn’t really know where to go except the bedroom. Does your husband enjoy coming home and seeing strangers on the sofa? Where does he go then? To the PC... yeah, great... right next to the sofa. The guys’ get-together won’t even start because the wife is upstairs sewing or just listening in the kitchen, which is obviously annoying. You will inevitably annoy each other because there simply isn’t any privacy besides the bedrooms. An open kitchen should not be underestimated. And neither should a PC workspace. Official home office is not possible. Not even in ten years.
And it’s obvious that it’s more than just a jam jar that needs to be stored. I myself have two moving boxes! containing only empty canning jars, just so I can preserve food at all. And you don’t want to know where those boxes have already been pushed around because they’re simply there. In the apartment, we never had that. There was a lot we didn’t have there that we now have to keep because of the house. Starting with a 19 liter (5 gallon) emergency reserve of bottled water, and ending with replacement filters.
ypg schrieb:
And of course, it’s a bit more than just a jam jar that needs to be stored... It starts at 19 liters (5 gallons) of Corona water as an emergency supply and ends with replacement filters. Honey, why don’t you get your list out?
la.schnute schrieb:
... I was just reviewing the budget again and looking over the calculations, and to my horror, I realized we seriously miscalculated in one area—a really stupid mistake—and the whole project, based on the current plan, will cost €20,000 more, which would bring us to €235,000... with price increases and the usual percentage contingency, that’s unfortunately hardly realistic anymore. The family council will meet about it tonight, but the house will probably have to be a lot smaller and simpler. We’re cutting the ceiling height and making the staircase more efficient as you suggested... we’ll see. If worst comes to worst, a semi-detached house on the plot is also possible; then we’d have to sell half of it... That doesn’t sound good. How is the access to the plot? Would it be possible to divide it for two single-family homes?
Smaller—then you really have to make some drastic cuts. The office corner will probably have to go, I’d say.
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