ᐅ Older apartment – Installing gas heating in a building without central heating
Created on: 15 Oct 2009 13:03
R
RacherHello!
I am currently considering purchasing a property and, since I generally avoid developers and am not looking for a detached house in the countryside but rather an apartment in the city, I am actively searching for suitable living space.
At the moment, I found something:
- Classic old building layout, very well maintained, basically everything perfect.
Only: gas individual stoves and an electric heater in the bathroom.
Of course, this immediately raises concerns about high additional costs, living comfort, and so on.
The next thought was naturally that a proper individual gas heating system needs to be installed, since there is no plan for a district heating connection and the building does not have a central heating system.
Two options present themselves:
- Cheap and simple, leaving the heating pipes exposed instead of hiding them inside the walls
- Or building a wall, installing the pipes, and then plastering it up again.
Does anyone have experience with such renovation measures? Could there be issues with the heritage protection office or the structural stability?
I appreciate any help.
I am currently considering purchasing a property and, since I generally avoid developers and am not looking for a detached house in the countryside but rather an apartment in the city, I am actively searching for suitable living space.
At the moment, I found something:
- Classic old building layout, very well maintained, basically everything perfect.
Only: gas individual stoves and an electric heater in the bathroom.
Of course, this immediately raises concerns about high additional costs, living comfort, and so on.
The next thought was naturally that a proper individual gas heating system needs to be installed, since there is no plan for a district heating connection and the building does not have a central heating system.
Two options present themselves:
- Cheap and simple, leaving the heating pipes exposed instead of hiding them inside the walls
- Or building a wall, installing the pipes, and then plastering it up again.
Does anyone have experience with such renovation measures? Could there be issues with the heritage protection office or the structural stability?
I appreciate any help.
Hello,
well, neither a gas boiler nor a district heating connection makes much of a difference here. The energy source remains the same.
Okay, the electric heater in the bathroom would be replaced, but that also means investment costs that need to be amortized first.
Actually, you would benefit more from thermal insulation, but only on one floor it’s probably unrealistic.
The pipes also run inside a baseboard, so you don’t weaken the masonry (or possibly the beam structure).
Best regards
well, neither a gas boiler nor a district heating connection makes much of a difference here. The energy source remains the same.
Okay, the electric heater in the bathroom would be replaced, but that also means investment costs that need to be amortized first.
Actually, you would benefit more from thermal insulation, but only on one floor it’s probably unrealistic.
The pipes also run inside a baseboard, so you don’t weaken the masonry (or possibly the beam structure).
Best regards
Hello and thank you very much for the first reply.
- Unfortunately, insulation is not possible because the decorative elements on the façade, and therefore the heritage preservation authorities, prohibit it. As for interior insulation, I seem to remember from building physics that it inevitably causes condensation inside the apartment.
The fact is that the heating system there is very old, and since a solar thermal system on the roof is likely not allowed due to heritage conservation, a gas-fired unit heater will probably have to suffice.
- The baseboards I meant are the ones with the covers – I have those in my current rental apartment, and they are extremely annoying and do not look good.
- Unfortunately, insulation is not possible because the decorative elements on the façade, and therefore the heritage preservation authorities, prohibit it. As for interior insulation, I seem to remember from building physics that it inevitably causes condensation inside the apartment.
The fact is that the heating system there is very old, and since a solar thermal system on the roof is likely not allowed due to heritage conservation, a gas-fired unit heater will probably have to suffice.
- The baseboards I meant are the ones with the covers – I have those in my current rental apartment, and they are extremely annoying and do not look good.
Hello everyone!!!
I think that if you embed the pipes into the interior walls (chase the walls), you likely won’t cause any issues with historic preservation regulations. In my opinion, these regulations usually cover the building’s exterior, such as the facade and windows, while the interior space is generally free for modification—provided it is allowed.
Regarding the installation methods for heating pipes, there aren’t many options anyway: baseboard piping as @parcus described, visible piping — although I find this disruptive because it limits room layout, as you have to keep the pipes exposed or avoid placing furniture against the wall where the pipes run — or chasing them into the walls, which involves a lot of work and creates a construction mess.
This would mean cutting grooves into the walls, say about 3cm (1.2 inches) deep.
The most important questions for me would be, first, whether it is permitted to install a floor heating system, and second, what type of heating unit (such as a water heater or condensing boiler) is allowed—whether it can be placed on an exterior wall or if it must be connected to an existing fireplace system, if one is present.
Best regards.
I think that if you embed the pipes into the interior walls (chase the walls), you likely won’t cause any issues with historic preservation regulations. In my opinion, these regulations usually cover the building’s exterior, such as the facade and windows, while the interior space is generally free for modification—provided it is allowed.
Regarding the installation methods for heating pipes, there aren’t many options anyway: baseboard piping as @parcus described, visible piping — although I find this disruptive because it limits room layout, as you have to keep the pipes exposed or avoid placing furniture against the wall where the pipes run — or chasing them into the walls, which involves a lot of work and creates a construction mess.
This would mean cutting grooves into the walls, say about 3cm (1.2 inches) deep.
The most important questions for me would be, first, whether it is permitted to install a floor heating system, and second, what type of heating unit (such as a water heater or condensing boiler) is allowed—whether it can be placed on an exterior wall or if it must be connected to an existing fireplace system, if one is present.
Best regards.
What exactly do these baseboards look like? I only know of ones that are nailed over the parquet, for example, onto the wall, or those oversized visible conduits.
As I mentioned, I would prefer the chasing/grooving method — that’s something I could do myself, or occasionally hire an installer on an hourly basis. The actual system installation, of course, I would have done by a professional.
A gas-fired floor-standing boiler is allowed, and there are fireplaces. I’m not sure about the permitted output for this type of boiler — there is also the option to purchase a storage tank for the apartment, which according to DIN standards would cover an additional 70 sqm (750 sq ft) of living space. It would make sense to install a system that can serve both floors, but I wonder if there are floor-standing heaters capable of warming 150+70 sqm (1,615+750 sq ft) of an old building, that is, 7 rooms plus 2 bathrooms and a kitchen :/
As I mentioned, I would prefer the chasing/grooving method — that’s something I could do myself, or occasionally hire an installer on an hourly basis. The actual system installation, of course, I would have done by a professional.
A gas-fired floor-standing boiler is allowed, and there are fireplaces. I’m not sure about the permitted output for this type of boiler — there is also the option to purchase a storage tank for the apartment, which according to DIN standards would cover an additional 70 sqm (750 sq ft) of living space. It would make sense to install a system that can serve both floors, but I wonder if there are floor-standing heaters capable of warming 150+70 sqm (1,615+750 sq ft) of an old building, that is, 7 rooms plus 2 bathrooms and a kitchen :/
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